Stockstill Signed for 2012 Per Roch

[Remember The Alomar]

Depends on if I agree with the manager. If I agree with what he wants to do and everything works, I look like a genius and I'll be in huge demand because I fixed the Orioles.

If I fail, I can just point to the constraints and everybody understands and feels sorry for me.

It's really a no-lose situation as somebody brought up earlier.

Clubs might be denying permission because they know their candidate would want it.

Wait, what!? So, do you feel sorry for MacPhail? He obviously fell under the same restraints that the next GM will face. You've done nothing but bash him, yet here you post that if the new GM fails, we should all feel sorry for him for the exact thing that 99% of this board has been telling you all along. The problem is PGA.

[Pat Kelly]

What's interesting is all the stuff going in Boston makes PGA and the O's seem somewhat sane and most of the issues less dire. Now I am not saying that O's do not have significant problems nor do I believe PGA is ready to change but the O's have an opportunity to no longer be the doormat of the AL East. The lustre is gone from Boston, NY is NY (nothing new there) and Tampa will not sustain things with on their revenue forever (watch Friedman leave after 2012). Toronto is on the rise which is good and bad. Good as they will challenge NY, Bos and Tampa more impacting W/L, bad as they are another hurdle for the O's.

What is interesting about this offseason is that with the right GM pairing with Buck and willingness/desire from PGA to win and win now there may be a Gillick/Johnson type of window for a couple of years in 2013-14 with Buck/?. More than ever 2012 is the year to make some moves - trades/FA/investment in player development if coupled from better performances from the "pitching calvary" could payoff long-term.

[Dipper9]

Tom Ricketts went ahead and signed the Cubs' VP of player personnel to a new deal before Epstein got there...

And he got a 4 year contract. We're just talking one year.

I agree with you in principal, and I think SG is overreacting a bit, but using the Cubs as an example for your case is not a good place to start!

[Dipper9]

We have discussed on this site, for years now, that a manager should be able to pick his coaches...he should be able to pick those people that he works with on an everyday basis.

Why should the GM position, the much more important job, be any different?

You're right...us "experts" here on the OH have been pissed that Trembley and others couldn't pick their own coaches and had to keep what they had. Then Buck came on board and was allowed to pick his own coaches. How'd that work out for us? The pitching coach ruined some of the young arms and QUIT before summer officially started. The hitting coach ruined the OH Golden Boy Pie and our team still has a piss poor OBP. Russell was a joke of a third base coach, so much so that Buck had to move his very valuable bench coach to third base and make up some excuse about Russell's knees. I mean, really? This is better than just keeping the guys we had?

I said before, in principal I agree with your thoughts that the GM should be in control to pick his staff, but realistically, with PA here, its not a big deal and it won't make any difference in anything.

[Dipper9]

Wait, what!? So, do you feel sorry for MacPhail? He obviously fell under the same restraints that the next GM will face. You've done nothing but bash him, yet here you post that if the new GM fails, we should all feel sorry for him for the exact thing that 99% of this board has been telling you all along. The problem is PGA.

I got $5 that says this post goes unanswered!

[TiredofLosing20]

Well, whoever brought this up was wrong.

It may be a no lose situation for a retread GM...but a guy like LaCava? No way is it no lose.

If he comes here and struggles, whether it is his fault or not, no one will be breaking down the door to give him that oppurtunity any time soon.

I brought this whole notion up in another thread, not sure if I am who Trea was referencing but I don't think failing in Baltimore will not be detrimental to anyone's career path unless they make some completely obvious bone-headed mistakes.

If we know how inept and how terrible the situation is in Baltimore I guarantee most baseball people understand it. I would also suggest that the experience of being a GM itself would most likely be worthwhile for someone like LaCava even if he fails here.

[Sports Guy]

Like Wren who is now considered one of the best in the game. How different could things have been if he were allowed to do things the way he wanted when he was here?

How long did it take for Wren to get back to the top though?

He didn't get a GM job for another 8 years.

Now, maybe he didn't want one? Maybe teams realized that he needed more seasoning after his time in BMore?

Who knows...But these young, first time GMs have to be careful about where they go.

[Sports Guy]

Yes, the fact the both he and Gillick failed in Baltimore, certainly destroyed their careers.:rolleyestf:

Only in your pathetic little universe did anyone say anything about destroying a career.

I said it would take a while for them to get back to the top...IE, not get the oppurtunity as quickly.

Gillick was an obvious exception due to what he had already done in his career, thus its stupid to even mention him.

[Sports Guy]

You're right...us "experts" here on the OH have been pissed that Trembley and others couldn't pick their own coaches and had to keep what they had. Then Buck came on board and was allowed to pick his own coaches. How'd that work out for us? The pitching coach ruined some of the young arms and QUIT before summer officially started. The hitting coach ruined the OH Golden Boy Pie and our team still has a piss poor OBP. Russell was a joke of a third base coach, so much so that Buck had to move his very valuable bench coach to third base and make up some excuse about Russell's knees. I mean, really? This is better than just keeping the guys we had?

I said before, in principal I agree with your thoughts that the GM should be in control to pick his staff, but realistically, with PA here, its not a big deal and it won't make any difference in anything.

And that's my point. This move shows nothing is changed.

[allstar1579]

How long did it take for Wren to get back to the top though?

He was Shuerholz's asst. for 8 years, but how much of that is he wasn't offered a job and how much of that is he wanted to stay where he was. I'm pretty sure I remember him turning a couple down in there somewhere. It worked out pretty well for him.

[Frobby]

I agree it would have been preferable to hire a new GM and let him decide whether to keep Stockstill in the organization. There may be some circumstances here we don't know about that forced the Orioles to act now. Or, maybe not. I'd need to know more before deciding whether this was a bad decision.

[Tony-OH]

You're right...us "experts" here on the OH have been pissed that Trembley and others couldn't pick their own coaches and had to keep what they had. Then Buck came on board and was allowed to pick his own coaches. How'd that work out for us? The pitching coach ruined some of the young arms and QUIT before summer officially started. The hitting coach ruined the OH Golden Boy Pie and our team still has a piss poor OBP. Russell was a joke of a third base coach, so much so that Buck had to move his very valuable bench coach to third base and make up some excuse about Russell's knees. I mean, really? This is better than just keeping the guys we had?

I said before, in principal I agree with your thoughts that the GM should be in control to pick his staff, but realistically, with PA here, its not a big deal and it won't make any difference in anything.

A brutal, but pretty accurate statement (besides ruining Pie since I don't think he was that good anyways) on the coaching staff. It's usually hard to define the impact of the coaching staff but the first year certainly didn't go well for Buck's choices besides Randolph and proved to be an excellent third base coach after Russell's implosion over there.

[Tony-OH]

As the Director of Minor League Operations, John knows the talent better than anyone. Who better to give the new GM some advice on the system as a whole? The new GM should be allowed to reassign John if he so chooses and bring in his own guy, but most of the time when a new guy comes in he'll want to make some evaluations on his own. I understand the frustrations of folks and share some of the same concerns about the development system that is not very deep and has not produced many impact players, but I think just throwing everyone out at once might not be the best idea.

Either way, the new GM should have full authority to hire and fire who he wants, but let's be serious here, not even MacPhail could do that and he was as close to PA as any Angelos GM.

[Singleton]

I agree it would have been preferable to hire a new GM and let him decide whether to keep Stockstill in the organization. There may be some circumstances here we don't know about that forced the Orioles to act now. Or, maybe not. I'd need to know more before deciding whether this was a bad decision.

I agree that the Stockstill decision isn't completely horrible as long as it is clear he may be reassigned.

On the other hand, while I'm fine with Buck as a manager, the enhanced power he has seemingly been given likely ensures disaster. The lines of authority in the O's organization are a complete mess. It just isn't how good organizations are run whether you are talking sports or anything else.

I haven't felt this down about the Orioles since the 2 headed GM days. This cannot work.

[TiredofLosing20]

How long did it take for Wren to get back to the top though?

He didn't get a GM job for another 8 years.

Now, maybe he didn't want one? Maybe teams realized that he needed more seasoning after his time in BMore?

Who knows...But these young, first time GMs have to be careful about where they go.

Obviously Gillick is irrelevant to this discussion

But a lot has changed between 1999 and now. Perception and payrolls are significantly different. I don't think Wren's 1999 situation is comparable to the 2011 situation.

I don't disagree, I am not 100% convinced that failing here wouldn't be detrimental to someone like LaCava but I have to think if the guy is well respected in the industry, the impact of failing (again minus a Mo Vaughn like decision) may be outweighed by just having GM on his resume. Also his bar for success would be pretty low. If he can get the team above .500 that will look like he has done an incredible job given the "circumstances" he is facing here.