Matusz to work out with Brady

[csgordos]

I will keep saying it until I am blue in the face, and there is a good chance that I am wrong: He was rushed back too quickly from an oblique injury. Pitching is all about torque. It starts in the legs, goes through the trunk and is extended through the shoulder and elbow until it is released. You take out the abdominal region of the torque and it will change everything with the mechanics and results. I honestly feel that Matusz could be the "comeback" player of the year in the AL. Now is he eligable for the award not playing that much, probably not, somebody smarter than me can talk about that idea. I agree with All-Star and Frobby, in my opinion he will be back this year and everybody will forget about last year. If I am wrong and he sucks all year, then I will put him in the camp of past Orioles Pitchers who were all hype. I am expecting big things from Brian. I see him as a legit #3 this year if not a low #2 by the end of the season. We should know by the end of May which faction is correct.

[CA-ORIOLE]

I will keep saying it until I am blue in the face, and there is a good chance that I am wrong: He was rushed back too quickly from an oblique injury. Pitching is all about torque. It starts in the legs, goes through the trunk and is extended through the shoulder and elbow until it is released. You take out the abdominal region of the torque and it will change everything with the mechanics and results. I honestly feel that Matusz could be the "comeback" player of the year in the AL. Now is he eligable for the award not playing that much, probably not, somebody smarter than me can talk about that idea. I agree with All-Star and Frobby, in my opinion he will be back this year and everybody will forget about last year. If I am wrong and he sucks all year, then I will put him in the camp of past Orioles Pitchers who were all hype. I am expecting big things from Brian. I see him as a legit #3 this year if not a low #2 by the end of the season. We should know by the end of May which faction is correct.

I think we can all agree that last year is better left forgotton (or at least learned from) and we need to move forward. I'm not discounting him and I (and probably most all of us) agree he probably did come back to soon from his injury. That doesn't really discount some of the specific issues being commented on here with his mental preparation and attitude. He wasn't very good pre-injury either.

[El Gordo]

I think we can all agree that last year is better left forgotton (or at least learned from) and we need to move forward. I'm not discounting him and I (and probably most all of us) agree he probably did come back to soon from his injury. That doesn't really discount some of the specific issues being commented on here with his mental preparation and attitude. He wasn't very good pre-injury either.

Wasn't he injured in ST? If that is the case why would you put that much emphasis on his performance then, especially while his mechanics were being monkeyed with. http://www.bbtia.com/home/2008/8/18/the-mccarthy-files-connecting-nolan-ryan-and-mark-connor.html

[Lucky Jim]

One of the less attractive things about the board.

When he a guy admits he came in ST mentally unprepared, he's fair game imo. Ditto deflecting blame onto someone else.

Fire away. Doesn't make it more attractive to the rest of us just because you can rationalize it. No one's saying it's not your right.

There are tons of questions. And they're legitimate. Uncertainty, doubt, skepticism are legitimate. Many of these posts seem to have a bit of a "scolding" tinge to them that's off-putting. And some are just plain speculative and conclusory.

I don't find any of it to be "attractive" - re: the Board discussions. And I'm not President of the Matusz fan club by any means.

I went back and re-read the entire thread and the only thing I found "off-putting" was yours and to a lesser extent Frobby's post. Be specific and call out who you think needs it and be more precise. Otherwise you're basically spouting nonsense.

You presented a pretty clear logical fallacy (nonsense). Years of expensive law school and some self reflection should make that evident. Maybe I thrust my opinion on here because it's a message board. When you voice an opinion, I can actually counter it. I believe the board technology allows you to ignore my posts. Maybe you should take advantage of it.

Where is this "logical fallacy," exactly? Apparently I'm too blinded by my own prettiness to catch it on further reflection.*

*Edited to ask an honest question: is it "these posts" that got you all riled up in that internet-y kind of way? Because I was referring to a type of post, not this thread. Aw, whatevs...

[CA-ORIOLE]

Wasn't he injured in ST? If that is the case why would you put that much emphasis on his performance then, especially while his mechanics were being monkeyed with.

I don't believe so. He stated he wasn't "mentally prepared" for ST. I don't know to what degree his mechanics were being "monkeyed" with. The only thing for sure I know is they were focused on holding runners. Something that you'd expect to be focused on in the minors imo. To me that means holding the ball longer and possibly shortening your stride. Since he already has a very short stride I can't imagine they would have shortened it more in his case.

I understand that pitchers aren't going to be at full strength out of ST, but it was pretty obvious to me that Matusz was getting winded pretty quickly in his early starts. I suspect he was not in good enough physical or mental condition to start ST.

Palmer mentioned a couple times that he was getting input from other teams that Matusz was tipping his pitches. Whether that's from something new in his delivery or something that was picked up in the offseason, I just don't know.

[El Gordo]

I don't believe so. He stated he wasn't "mentally prepared" for ST. I don't know to what degree his mechanics were being "monkeyed" with. The only thing for sure I know is they were focused on holding runners. Something that you'd expect to be focused on in the minors imo. To me that means holding the ball longer and possibly shortening your stride. Since he already has a very short stride I can't imagine they would have shortened it more in his case.

I undersand that pitchers aren't going to be at full strength out of ST, but it was pretty obvious to me that Matusz was getting winded pretty quickly in his early starts. I suspect he was not in good enough physical or mental condition to start ST.

Palmer mentioned a couple times that he was getting input from other teams that Matusz was tipping his pitches. Whether that's from something new in his delivery or something that was picked up in the offseason, I just don't know.

Of course he is going to say this kind of stuff. He is under control by the O's and if he hopes to have a ML career he isn't going to bad mouth the PC or any one else in the organization. I just find the story of Connor with McCarthy and others telling, especially after Ryan fixed things in a single bullpen session, after firing Connor. Too bad we can't rent Nolan for a day or two with Brian.

[Frobby]

I thought it would enhance the discussion if I quoted what Matusz said about not being mentally prepared. This is from late July 2011:

Struggling left-hander Brian Matusz acknowledged Wednesday that he wasn't "mentally prepared" for the start of the season and that he lost confidence in himself after being asked to make mechanical changes that he wasn't comfortable making.

"Obviously, coming in not prepared is pretty clear to everyone," Matusz said in a phone interview a day after he allowed four runs (three earned) on seven hits and three walks in Triple-A Norfolk's loss to Toledo. "It wasn't necessarily that I wasn't physically prepared, but I wasn't mentally prepared. I was working with two pitching coaches that I didn't know, and they wanted to change things I've done for my whole life.

"Rick Adair and Mark Connor had great intentions of helping us young guys get better. That was the goal, that was the plan. Mentally, I wasn't prepared to make that happen. Right now, I'm trying to find myself, getting back to what has made me successful through my entire life."

http://mobile.sun-sentinel.com/p.p?a=rp&m=b&postId=615349&curAbsIndex=2&resultsUrl=DID%3D1%26DFCL%3D1000%26DSB%3Drank%2523desc%26DBFQ%3DuserId%253A46%26DL.w%3D%26DL.d%3D10%26DQ%3DsectionId%253A5930%26DPS%3D0%26DPL%3D10

Personally, I don't read this as trying to deflect blame onto Connor and Adair. He's just saying he wasn't "mentally prepared" to make the changes the coaches asked him to make. And frankly, I understand it. He had been working with a pitching coach for two years, and finished 2010 with two strong months. Would you expect to come back the following February and be told to make significant changes in what you had been doing? That doesn't mean Connor and Adair were wrong in what they were suggesting, just that he hadn't come to camp expecting it and had trouble making the necessary mental adjustments. As to whether Connor and Adair were right in what they were suggesting, I can't really say. Obviously it didn't work out in 2011. Hopefully, next spring goes smoother.

[El Gordo]

I thought it would enhance the discussion if I quoted what Matusz said about not being mentally prepared. This is from late July 2011:

http://mobile.sun-sentinel.com/p.p?a=rp&m=b&postId=615349&curAbsIndex=2&resultsUrl=DID%3D1%26DFCL%3D1000%26DSB%3Drank%2523desc%26DBFQ%3DuserId%253A46%26DL.w%3D%26DL.d%3D10%26DQ%3DsectionId%253A5930%26DPS%3D0%26DPL%3D10

Personally, I don't read this as trying to deflect blame onto Connor and Adair. He's just saying he wasn't "mentally prepared" to make the changes the coaches asked him to make. And frankly, I understand it. He had been working with a pitching coach for two years, and finished 2010 with two strong months. Would you expect to come back the following February and be told to make significant changes in what you had been doing? That doesn't mean Connor and Adair were wrong in what they were suggesting, just that he hadn't come to camp expecting it and had trouble making the necessary mental adjustments. As to whether Connor and Adair were right in what they were suggesting, I can't really say. Obviously it didn't work out in 2011. Hopefully, next spring goes smoother.

If it ain't broke don't fix it, don't even tweak it. There seem to be two kinds of pitching coaches from the interviews I've heard, the kind like Kranny who would work with each individual's strengths to maximize them, while trying to diminish weaknesses, or the kind like Mazzone and Connor who simply impose the same approach on everyone.

[CA-ORIOLE]

I thought it would enhance the discussion if I quoted what Matusz said about not being mentally prepared. This is from late July 2011:

http://mobile.sun-sentinel.com/p.p?a=rp&m=b&postId=615349&curAbsIndex=2&resultsUrl=DID%3D1%26DFCL%3D1000%26DSB%3Drank%2523desc%26DBFQ%3DuserId%253A46%26DL.w%3D%26DL.d%3D10%26DQ%3DsectionId%253A5930%26DPS%3D0%26DPL%3D10

Personally, I don't read this as trying to deflect blame onto Connor and Adair. He's just saying he wasn't "mentally prepared" to make the changes the coaches asked him to make. And frankly, I understand it. He had been working with a pitching coach for two years, and finished 2010 with two strong months. Would you expect to come back the following February and be told to make significant changes in what you had been doing? That doesn't mean Connor and Adair were wrong in what they were suggesting, just that he hadn't come to camp expecting it and had trouble making the necessary mental adjustments. As to whether Connor and Adair were right in what they were suggesting, I can't really say. Obviously it didn't work out in 2011. Hopefully, next spring goes smoother.

I don't have any problem with that Frobby. I'm just going to point out one thing. In your post you mentioned they were asking him to make "significant" changes. Matusz doesn't indicate they were "significant" just that he wasn't prepared to make them and that it affected him. We really don't know what those changes were. I'd love to know. But whatever, at this point it's probably better just to let him do what he thnks he needs to do and is comfortable with.

[CA-ORIOLE]

Of course he is going to say this kind of stuff. He is under control by the O's and if he hopes to have a ML career he isn't going to bad mouth the PC or any one else in the organization. I just find the story of Connor with McCarthy and others telling, especially after Ryan fixed things in a single bullpen session, after firing Connor. Too bad we can't rent Nolan for a day or two with Brian.

I went back and researched the McCarthy issue. You have seen McCarthy pitch right? You know what his mechanics are like? They are prety damn awkward. Anyways it looks like changes were made by Connor and that McCarthy did develop an arm injury. He actually pitched better for 5 or 6 games after making the changes that Connor implemented. I don't see how the cases are analogous. Matusz didn't develop an injury because of what Connor implemented. This was in 2007. McCarthy develped another arm injury in 2009/2010. Mike Maddux has also worked with changing his mechanics and according to a recent Hardball Times article he made significant changes to his mechanics again in 2011.

So what is your opinion about Buck then? I noticed you've avoided answering that. Obviously an incompetent boob as well, right.

[Mr Snuffleupagus]

If it ain't broke don't fix it, don't even tweak it. There seem to be two kinds of pitching coaches from the interviews I've heard, the kind like Kranny who would work with each individual's strengths to maximize them, while trying to diminish weaknesses, or the kind like Mazzone and Connor who simply impose the same approach on everyone.

And if there was/ is any argument to keep Adair, this is it. I don't know what his philosophy is, but the message needs to remain consistent from season to season. The constant change in pitching coaches can't be good. Our "core" had 3 pitching coaches in a 2 year span, I don't know exactly how different their philosophies were, but they certainly weren't the same.

[El Gordo]

So McCarthy pitched most of 2009 with a shoulder injury and Ryan took over for the incompetent Connor and fixed him in one bullpen sesssion. Amazing. So what is your opinion about Buck then? I noticed you've avoided answering that. Obviously an incompetent boob as well, right.

My jury is still out on Buck. I think he made a mistake with Connor. I don't think Connor was the right guy for our pitchers. He seems to be too old school, for these days. I think Buck's obsession with every detail got him into trouble with this one. I don't think either Connor or Buck are incompetent boobs. I think Connor is well past his prime and should stay in a FO somewhere.

[Stotle]

{reads thread}

Yikes......

[CA-ORIOLE]

And if there was/ is any argument to keep Adair, this is it. I don't know what his philosophy is, but the message needs to remain consistent from season to season. The constant change in pitching coaches can't be good. Our "core" had 3 pitching coaches in a 2 year span, I don't know exactly how different their philosophies were, but they certainly weren't the same.

This is my thought. I'm open to changing my opinion if someone in the know like Stotle or Tony could provide us some concrete information about why Adair isn't good. But absent that, I think the musical chairs with the pitching coaches needs to stop.

[CA-ORIOLE]

{reads thread}

Yikes......

Well chime in. I just was thinking about you.