Guthrie traded to Rockies for Hammel & Lindstrom

[Os84]

Also he was the O's player rep.

Do you see any other trades on the horizon? Or just small FA acquisition(s)?

[LookinUp]

Perhaps, but I still think Guthrie had the potential to bring more in return for a team that might need that starter down the stretch. At best this trade is a wash. If you are going to do that then they might as well keep him under the potential that teams could offer more when they are desperate. If it doesn't happen,then you get a compensation pick, which still may have more long term benefits than Hammel and Lindstrom.

I think the probabilities of Guthrie, with $4m salary remaining, netting anything substantial at the deadline are very small. I think Hammel or even a hot Lindstrom netting something similar or better at the deadline because of their lower salaries are at least as high. The difference, I think, is you have 2 guys providing value instead of 1, and 2 guys who have a chance to provide value at this trade deadline, next offseason, or next trade deadline, instead of Guthrie only at this trade deadline.

It is possible that this trade ends up being a net negative, but it's also possible that it's a clear positive if both players return to previous performance levels and/or Guthrie's apparent decline (if only in my eyes) continues.

I really think people are over-valuing Guthrie here. Maybe I'm discounting the down side of these two players too much? Perhaps.

[DrungoHazewood]

Now we are stuck paying below average players for 2013. I don't see any positive in this trade at all.

Guthrie himself has been a below-average pitcher either two or three of the last three years (depending on whether you believe in ERA or FIP). Hammel at least has some upside if he goes back to his pre-2011 levels, plus he and Lindstrom are under team control through 2013.

I can see not being a huge fan of the deal, but there's definitely the potential for at least a mildly positive outcome.

[Fan4Life]

And, if Guthrie hits the wall and performs poorly, DD looks like a genius, too. Not every move has to be about 2015. We still have to play ball in 2012 and this move has the potential to make us better in 2012/2013 and if it comes to it, could net as many or more prospects than Guthrie would have, anyway. The pessimism seems grossly exagerated if not totally unwarrented.

Perhaps some perspective?

http://forum.orioleshangout.com/forums/showthread.php/118297-Can-this-organization-even-pretend-it-wants-to-win

[Mr Snuffleupagus]

If the arb talks really had anything to do with this and if Buck wasnt JGs biggest fan, is this another example of PA and Buck running the ML team?

Seriously? This again? Would you feel the same way if we got the prospects you were looking for?

[LookinUp]

If the arb talks really had anything to do with this and if Buck wasnt JGs biggest fan, is this another example of PA and Buck running the ML team?

Buck's evaluation of Guthrie almost certainly weighed heavily in this decision. And Connor, for that matter.

[Sports Guy]

Seriously? This again? Would you feel the same way if we got the prospects you were looking for?

No...but so what? That is a stupid point to bring up.

We didn't get prospects. We got guys that could maybe help us out right now and then the arb stuff and the Buck/JG issues(if there are any), make that a valid question.

So, perhaps you can add something to it other than asking a poor question in response?

[DrungoHazewood]

This is really the only way to look at this deal that will allow us all to sleep better at night. If Hammel or Lindstom pitches well enough to garner a nice return at some point between now and 2014, DD will look like a genius. If they perform horribly, and net us nothing, it looks horrible.

How would it look horrible? If you stand pat you definitely have a decent starting pitcher at $7-10M for one year, and potentially (but not definitely) a draft pick worth a couple $million. The trade gives them options that could net them positive value in 2013.

To me this is trading performance certainty in what's likely a lost year, for potential value in both 2012 and 2013. Small net gain for a team in the O's position.

[Going Underground]

Do you see any other trades on the horizon? Or just small FA acquisition(s)?

Another trade,but trying to find out. I think DD sends out misinformation on purpose. O's still need a bat. Why did they not trade Guthrie for a bat? Do any of these players get flipped to the Braves or White Sox?

[Skeletor]

What have we as fans been doing the last 15 years? It sure as hell hasn't been following a winning team. It's not like I can chalk this up to a necessary move to continue a string of contending seasons. The team stinks so I've learned to appreciate the individuals who perform well, like being in Baltimore, and have some class and maturity. Guthrie had all of those things. This team is going to be bad in 2012, and I'd rather watch them stink with Guthrie than without him.

[Sports Guy]

Another trade,but trying to find out. I think DD sends out misinformation on purpose. O's still need a bat. Why did they not trade Guthrie for a bat? Do any of these players get flipped to the Braves or White Sox?

Why would the Braves or WS want any of these guys and what bats are either of them giving us?

[El Gordo]

So on the one hand we could have Guthrie's 200 IP and 25+ gopher balls at 10 M with a draft pick, or B- prospect at the deadline. On the other we have a GB SP who will give us 170 IP at 4 M plus a RP for the back of the bullpen at 4M for 2 years. I agree witn Drungo, it's a meh trade but better than the alternative.

[LookinUp]

Another trade,but trying to find out. I think DD sends out misinformation on purpose. O's still need a bat. Why did they not trade Guthrie for a bat? Do any of these players get flipped to the Braves or White Sox?

If so, that makes this even more interesting.

This trade is more than player-player and relatively equal salary. It's also payroll flexibility. Perhaps they plan on using one of these guys (probably the bullpen arm, I'd guess) to offset any salary they're taking on in a Jones deal?

[Biff Tannen]

If the arb talks really had anything to do with this and if Buck wasnt JGs biggest fan, is this another example of PA and Buck running the ML team?

Did I miss something? Where are we gathering this from?

Personally, I'm neither happy nor sad about the deal and I tend to think that Guthrie's sell-by date to get anything of youthfulness and importance is way past us. And I think the move falls in line with what DD has done so far, for better or worse.

[atomic]

So on the one hand we could have Guthrie's 200 IP and 25+ gopher balls at 10 M with a draft pick, or B- prospect at the deadline. On the other we have a GB SP who will give us 170 IP at 4 M plus a RP for the back of the bullpen at 4M for 2 years. I agree witn Drungo, it's a meh trade but better than the alternative.

Who knows the draft pick could have been the next fielder