Mussina elected to Orioles Hall of Fame! (Also Dauer and Youse) w/Mussina reaction

[Il BuonO]

Long story. Angelos really lowballed Mussina for a long time in the negotiations over the course of about a year, and then once the free agent period finally started, offered Mussina about $10 mm less than he got from the Yankees. The deal he finally offered Mussina would have been more than enough to keep him if he had made it earlier. His original offers were clearly below market value and I think Moose got his nose bent out of joint. See: Rafael Palmeiro 1998.

Exactly. Ask yourself, is that how you would want to be treated by the guy you been playing for your entire career? Angelos is a jerk. And while it would have been classy for Mussina to stay it would have been much more classy for PA to offer him the best contract from the get go. Typical.

Therefore, I am HAPPY he's being inducted.

[Lucky Jim]

I agree with everything you say here, but I will add this. Singy was on one of the local shows on the Fan in the late Summer, right after Flanny's passing. Ken brought up all the sentiments that you are about the Orioles being a family. But he also added one thing. He said if that team was together today, that they (the Orioles) would not have been able to keep the team together because many of them would be making too much money, and they would not have stayed with the Orioles over taking the money from free agency. Now, this was just one man's opinion, but he was an Oriole through and through (even though he came from NY and is now a Yankee broadcaster).

My point is the Baltimore Orioles that we all grew up loving in the 60's-early 80's played in a different era of the sport, and while its easy to say they were family, one has to wonder if the "family ties" would have been stronger than the lore and money of free agency that exists today.

Right. In addition, it's tough for me to say that a player can't do X, Y, or Z when the team has all the power in the world to summarily trade a guy to some far-flung place he has not desire to play. I can hope a player won't leave, but...

Part of me thinks that if we'd had a few more stars in the last 12 years this wouldn't be as big an issue.

[Lucky Jim]

Mu$$ina's departure signals the end of the Orioles' competitive spending with the Yankees. Two years later the Yankees had doubled our payroll.

Payrolls:

2000 - Baltimore $81,447,435 $2,808,532

2000 - NY Yankees $92,538,260 $3,190,974

2001 - Baltimore $72,426,328 $2,497,460

2001 - NY Yankees $109,791,893 $3,541,674

2002 - Baltimore Orioles $60,493,487 $1,890,421

2002 - NY Yankees $125,928,583 $4,342,365

2003 - Baltimore Orioles $ 73,877,500

2003 - NY Yankees $ 152,749,814

Yeah. Very true. Give the Yanks props, though: this tracks the emergence of the YES network in 2002. Game-changer.

[btownoriole]

I blame Mussina's departure far more on Angelos than I do on Mussina. I wasn't happy that he signed with the Yankees but if Angelos hadn't low-balled him he never would have made it to free agency. I'm happy he's being inducted.

[Tony-OH]

This is probably true, but I don't blame him for it. What we sometimes forget is that these guys are people. Its not Fantasy Baseball and they don;t live their lives for us, the fans. By the time Angelos gave him what he asked for, maybe, Moose thought to himself, "I'm kinda sick and tired of being jerked around by this guy. I think its time to move on."

Just like Pujols.

There are very few Cal's or (dare I say it) Jeter's, or Chipper Jones' left in the world. Most players do not stay with the same team their entire career, especially when the owner is widely accepted as one of the worst in all of sports.

True, and that's why they are special players. They are players that will leave legacy's. That's not important to most players nowadays, I understand that, but that doesn't mean I have to like it. Mu$$ina's departure signaled the end of the Orioles competitive spending with the Yankees and not surprisingly was towards the beginning of their 14 straight losing season. Mu$$ina signing with the Yankees started the decline of the fan base's interest and contributed to the decline of the Orioles organization. I don't blame him for all the O's woes because that would be naive, especially knowing how hard Angelos has worked to ensure this organization became a laughing stock of baseball, but in my mind that truly began when Mu$$ina shunned the Orioles offer and signed with its hated rival. To me Mu$$ina's departure signaled the decline of the Orioles as a competitive major league organization.

[CamdenTerp]

Interesting facts from the article.

"Mussina actually posted better pitching stats with the Orioles than the Yankees despite playing on five losing teams in Baltimore and six first-place clubs in New York. His ERA (3.53 to 3.88), win percentage (.645 to .631) and WHIP (1.18 to 1.21) were all better with Baltimore."

[UMDTerrapins]

Exactly. Ask yourself, is that how you would want to be treated by the guy you been playing for your entire career? Angelos is a jerk. And while it would have been classy for Mussina to stay it would have been much more classy for PA to offer him the best contract from the get go. Typical.

Therefore, I am HAPPY he's being inducted.

I'm pretty much of the same mind. I blame his leaving on Angelos. Speaking of which, does Angelos usually attend the induction ceremonies?

[El Gordo]

Screw Mussina's family, screw winning, screw the Players Union. Mussina owed it to the fans to bend over for Angelos and do it with a smile?

[Lucky Jim]

This sounds...strange:

"It was my first trip to the World Series and I don't think there was a lot of disappointment (in '79). I was happy and I think we were happy that we just got to the World Series. When we took a 3-1 lead with Flanny (Mike Flanagan), (Scott) McGregor and Palmer it was almost as if we had won the World Series and then things didn't turn out right," Dauer said.

[Nigel Tufnel]

Long story. Angelos really lowballed Mussina for a long time in the negotiations over the course of about a year, and then once the free agent period finally started, offered Mussina about $10 mm less than he got from the Yankees. The deal he finally offered Mussina would have been more than enough to keep him if he had made it earlier. His original offers were clearly below market value and I think Moose got his nose bent out of joint. See: Rafael Palmeiro 1998.

To me, this was the most infuriating part of the Mussina negotiations. How could Angelos not see what was coming, when the exact same thing had just happened with Palmeiro?

[Dipper9]

True, and that's why they are special players. They are players that will leave legacy's. That's not important to most players nowadays, I understand that, but that doesn't mean I have to like it. Mu$$ina's departure signaled the end of the Orioles competitive spending with the Yankees and not surprisingly was towards the beginning of their 14 straight losing season. Mu$$ina signing with the Yankees started the decline of the fan base's interest and contributed to the decline of the Orioles organization. I don't blame him for all the O's woes because that would be naive, especially knowing how hard Angelos has worked to ensure this organization became a laughing stock of baseball, but in my mind that truly began when Mu$$ina shunned the Orioles offer and signed with its hated rival. To me Mu$$ina's departure signaled the decline of the Orioles as a competitive major league organization.

Agreed. But which came first, the Thryft fire sale or the Moose debacle? I know they were both about the same time, but I don't remember which came first. If it was the fire sale, it adds extra fuel to Moose not wanting to stay. If was Moose leaving and THEN the Orioles cut bait with everyone, then I absolutely 100% agree that Moose leaving was the major blow to this team becoming what it is today.

[Frobby]

Maybe some would have gotten bigger contracts (although most of the time I'm talking about was during free agency) elsewhere, but I doubt any of them would have signed with the Yankees unless they were blown away. If the orioles were offering $10 million and year the Yankes were offering $20 million, I really couldn't fault Mu$$ina for leaving, even if it was the Yankees. But at the end, Mu$$ina was offered what he asked for and turned it down out of spite.

I seriously doubt that any player who was going to test the free agent waters would not consider the Yankees merely because they were a "rival" of his prior team. I don't think professional athletes really get into "rivalries" the way fans do. At least, they didn't by 2000 when Mussina was a free agent. Maybe in the 1970's it would have mattered a little.

By the time the O's anted up, the Yankees were offering $10 mm more. So, I don't know that I'd say that Mussina turned down the O's offer out of "spite." I do think that the way Angelos handled the negotiations offended Mussina, and should have, and hence he was in no mood to cut Angelos any breaks. You may recall that he was extremely unhappy with the July 2000 fire sale of several of his teammates. Ask B.J. Surhoff how loyal the Orioles were to him.

[Lucky Jim]

How can we fans be angry at Mussina for taking over $100 million when Angelos wouldn't even give him the $60 million to extend about a year before he left? What was in the best interests of his family? (I am going on memory here and may be off a little on the numbers...I hope I'm not missing anything, but this is the way I remember it going down.) I hate the Yankees as much as anybody, but the O's are to blame for this one.

To be accurate, it was a 6yr/88.5m contract from the Yanks. I think the O's offered:

Angelos employed a ponderous, stepladder approach to negotiations, initially offering $50 million over five years, improving it in February to $60 million over five years with $10 million deferred, then in August adding a sixth year to a $72 million proposal.

Angelos made his final improvement several weeks ago, jacking the deal to $78 million over six years with $12 million deferred at no interest.

http://articles.baltimoresun.com/2000-12-01/news/0012010026_1_mussina-orioles-roger-clemens

[jtschrei]

As someone who was bitter and continued to be bitter for a long time, I can say that this interview takes some of the sting away. In many ways, Mussina was a lightning rod for my frustration with the organization.

Looking back now, it seems obvious that he made the best decision for him. I don't even blame him now. He could probably see the handwriting on the wall.

BUT, it took me a long time to get over him leaving. I welcome him back now as an O's HOF.

[Babypowder]

Deserving or not, I want no Yankees in the O's Hall of Fame. They are scum, all of them.