How do we get Trevor Bauer? (Update: Bauer to Indians)

[MachadOboutManny]

The comparison Coc made was Tillman 2011 vs Bauer 2012. Thats insanely absurd. It warrants Hobgood-level sarcasm.

Tillman is over 3 years older than Bauer

Tillman 2011: 6.68 Ks per 9 in AAA

Tillman 2011: 4.48 BB per 9 in AAA

Tillman 2011: 5.19 ERA in AAA

Tillman 2011: Gave up 2 HR per 9 in AAA

Tillman 2011 had a 17/54 HR/K ratio (yup) in AAA

Bauer 2012: 10.65 Ks per 9 in AAA

Bauer 2012: 3.84 BB per 9 in AAA

Bauer 2012: 0.88 HR Per 9 in AAA

Bauer 2012: 2.85 ERA

Bauer 2012: had an 8/97 HR/K ratio

The comparison, as I said, is absurd. Only someone who is completely clueless would consider hinting that the two entities are similar in value.

[MachadOboutManny]

Right. Tell you what, when Bauer puts up a half season as good as Tillman get back to me. Til then your the only one looking weak.

You're delusional. Your argument contains no substance at all. In this little 'debate' -- not only have you lost it -- but how naive you are is staggering. You have attempted to manipulate things into your favor a little bit here and a little bit there. Facts are what they are. Tillman has less value than Bauer right now, but that wasn't even the argument, Coc argued that the value of a 2011 Tillman was an adequate comparison in value to 2012 Bauer. It is not.

Everything I have stated is correct. I took time out of my evening to explain things to you -- you should be more thankful. I have been more than kind and explained things to you very clearly.

[scOtt]

Hire Jack. Trevor will follow.

[scOtt]

@Buster_ESPN

Two reasons why Arizona will listen on Bauer: 1) Avg. fastball velo was 92.2 mph, less than in college, and 2) His willingness to adjust.

Tillman increased his velocity from the previous year and he made adjustments while working with Peterson on his delivery.

A little side note. I wouldn't mind having Bauer, but I wouldn't go crazy giving up talent for him. I saw him develop out here and while he had a ton of ability in college, the feeling at the time was his ceiling was limited in the pros. He's got a small frame and unlike Bundy who is also only 6'1" he is not built solidly.

Tillman, however, is 6'5" 210

I didn't realize Bundy is only 6'1". Says the old fart who's only 5'6"...

And I've seen Bundy from

Seems like a tank.

[Elbren]

Right. Tell you what, when Bauer puts up a half season as good as Tillman get back to me. Til then your the only one looking weak.

This is comment is just silly.

I'm rooting for Tillman just as much as the next guy, but you seriously need to be realistic. Tillman is not a "prospect". The guy will be 25 next season and he's been in the league since 2009. He couldn't even make the rotation out of Spring Training despite the fact that all 5 rotation spots were seemingly up for grabs. Yes, he had a great season, but it was only 15 starts. You seem to be forgetting that he has 36 starts prior to this that suggest this success won't hold. Again, he's been in the league since 2009. This is the first time his ERA has been under 5.40 and the first time his WHIP has been under 1.53. The league has also hit .300 off of him in 2 of his 4 seasons. Hell, it took Hammel's injury and Arrieta, Matusz and Hunter all pitching themselves out of the rotation before the organization finally gave Tillman a chance this year. That's the kind of faith they had in him up to this point. You act like the rest of the league is just going to magically ignore all of that. In no way, shape or form does Chris Tillman have the same type of value as a 21 year old top prospect whose put in half a season at AAA despite only being drafted last year.

As for Bauer himself, I think people are getting a little ahead of themselves in terms of his availability. We're basing this all off of some ESPN speculation and Towers' generic "We'll listen to offers on anyone" comment. If I've learned anything from watching ESPN, it's that I should never really listen to ESPN.

[Can_of_corn]

Thats the most absurd thing I have ever read. Those two wouldnt begin to scratch the surface.

Its unfortunate that you were lost so easily and opted to explain your ignorance with sanctimonious sarcasm rather than the good ole "honest mistake".

Your little green reputation bars leave me to believe you're better than this. Step it up, Coc.

Thats insanely absurd. It warrants Hobgood-level sarcasm.

The comparison, as I said, is absurd. Only someone who is completely clueless would consider hinting that the two entities are similar in value.

You're delusional. Your argument contains no substance at all.

Everything I have stated is correct. I took time out of my evening to explain things to you -- you should be more thankful. I have been more than kind and explained things to you very clearly.

I am all in favor of judicious use of sarcasm. That being said you need to tone it down. A number of comments above could be considered attacking/insulting other board members.

Now, as to Tillman, of course it isn't an exact comparison he was however a top 15 prospect at one point. Would Britton have been a better choice for you? How about Matusz?, He was every bit as regarded as Bauer as a prospect and he was working out of the pen last fall.

For some reason the AZ FO is down on Bauer, it was pronounced enough during the season that KLaw started using a #FreeTrevorBauer hashtag on Twitter. They were down on him before he made his MLB debut and he certainly didn't look good in limited action. This is more then a case of being willing to listen to offers. You don't throw out a name like his to the media unless you are actively shopping him.

[Il BuonO]

The comparison Coc made was Tillman 2011 vs Bauer 2012. Thats insanely absurd. It warrants Hobgood-level sarcasm.

Tillman is over 3 years older than Bauer

Tillman 2011: 6.68 Ks per 9 in AAA

Tillman 2011: 4.48 BB per 9 in AAA

Tillman 2011: 5.19 ERA in AAA

Tillman 2011: Gave up 2 HR per 9 in AAA

Tillman 2011 had a 17/54 HR/K ratio (yup) in AAA

Bauer 2012: 10.65 Ks per 9 in AAA

Bauer 2012: 3.84 BB per 9 in AAA

Bauer 2012: 0.88 HR Per 9 in AAA

Bauer 2012: 2.85 ERA

Bauer 2012: had an 8/97 HR/K ratio

The comparison, as I said, is absurd. Only someone who is completely clueless would consider hinting that the two entities are similar in value.

Wow, those numbers are staggering. Where were they put up? Your arrogance is astounding.

I am all in favor of judicious use of sarcasm. That being said you need to tone it down. A number of comments above could be considered attacking/insulting other board members.

Now, as to Tillman, of course it isn't an exact comparison he was however a top 15 prospect at one point. Would Britton have been a better choice for you? How about Matusz?, He was every bit as regarded as Bauer as a prospect and he was working out of the pen last fall.

For some reason the AZ FO is down on Bauer, it was pronounced enough during the season that KLaw started using a #FreeTrevorBauer hashtag on Twitter. They were down on him before he made his MLB debut and he certainly didn't look good in limited action. This is more then a case of being willing to listen to offers. You don't throw out a name like his to the media unless you are actively shopping him.

C o C is dead on when he talks about AZ being down on Bauer BEFORE they brought him up. Then he blew that chance. Tillman didn't blow his, he contributed to our team getting to the PO.

No one is comparing Tillman's status as a draft pick. Bauer's own team doesn't value him as when they drafted him. Saavy?

[BrunoCherrytown]

This is all very simple - it's a 3-team trade.

We send Schoop to Texas and our batboy + An autographed Brady Anderson batting glove to Arizona. Texas sends us back Profar and Arizona sends us Bauer. Then Arizona sends Texas a carton of Big League Chew and Texas sends Arizona a case of sunflower seeds.

There may be some "ts" to cross and "i's" to dot but I don't know what is holding this up.

[waroriole]

This is all very simple - it's a 3-team trade.

We send Schoop to Texas and our batboy + An autographed Brady Anderson batting glove to Arizona. Texas sends us back Profar and Arizona sends us Bauer. Then Arizona sends Texas a carton of Big League Chew and Texas sends Arizona a case of sunflower seeds.

There may be some "ts" to cross and "i's" to dot but I don't know what is holding this up.

If we're sending TEX Schoop, we need more than just Profar. I'll say Darvish (plus his salary), and all the proceeds from their new TV deal.

[luismatos4prez]

If we're sending TEX Schoop, we need more than just Profar. I'll say Darvish (plus his salary), and all the proceeds from their new TV deal.

I can't see Texas agreeing to that unless we take Adrian Beltre and a check for 120% of his salary off their hands

[Singleton]

Hopefully Schoop + Hardy + a check for Hardy's contract would get it done. Probably a fair trade.

Boy, the OH loves those young guys. I think you'd get Bauer for Hardy + Schoop without paying off the contract. I wouldn't make that deal. Bauer is probably a top 20ish prospect? Schoop will probably end up maybe top 70 perhaps as high as 50ish? And for the difference you want to give Hardy who has an attractive contract? Not for me. I also think that while Bauer has a higher ceiling that Schoop, he also has a lower floor.

I like Bauer but he's far from a sure thing. Have we learned nothing about the number of pitching prospects that don't meet expectations. Again, I'm not down on Bauer at all. I'd love to have him but I'm not overpaying for his promise.

[waroriole]

I can't see Texas agreeing to that unless we take Adrian Beltre and a check for 120% of his salary off their hands

We will have to play hardball and dangle Schoop to the Angels for Trout and Weaver then.

[LookinUp]

you were lost so easily...

explain your ignorance...

sanctimonious sarcasm

Your little green reputation bars

The comparison is absurd.

You cant, sensibly...

considering you're not debating substance

The absurdity of comparing...

is utterly ridiculous

That isnt an actual argument.

a weak attempt...

manipulate the facts...

misguided truth

Thats insanely absurd. It warrants Hobgood-level sarcasm...

The comparison, as I said, is absurd...

Only someone who is completely clueless

You're delusional...

Your argument contains no substance at all...

not only have you lost it...

but how naive you are is staggering...

attempted to manipulate things into your favor...

I took time out of my evening to explain things to you -- you should be more thankful. I have been more than kind and explained things to you very clearly.

In case you're wondering why I neg repped you...

Also, I'm sort of getting to be an old hat around here. I don't say that to give me any extra standing over any other poster. I just mention it as evidence that I've been around long enough to know that people with posting styles like yours usually either tone it down or they end up leaving. Oh, and nobody cares how much time you have in your schedule, and we're not lucky to get your opinion. This is a message board where logical opinions are welcomed by all and derogatory opinions are generally not appreciated by most.

For the record, I agree with your assessment on the relative value of Tillman in 10, 11 or 12 versus Bauer. I just think there's a more respectful way to make it.

[Il BuonO]

Just a reminder for all lovers of all things Bauer. The AZ FO wasn't the only place where his standing had dropped. Baseball America didn't have him listed in their mid season rankings of 50 best prospects for 2012.

[JDubs]

In case you're wondering why I neg repped you...

Also, I'm sort of getting to be an old hat around here. I don't say that to give me any extra standing over any other poster. I just mention it as evidence that I've been around long enough to know that people with posting styles like yours usually either tone it down or they end up leaving. Oh, and nobody cares how much time you have in your schedule, and we're not lucky to get your opinion. This is a message board where logical opinions are welcomed by all and derogatory opinions are generally not appreciated by most.

For the record, I agree with your assessment on the relative value of Tillman in 10, 11 or 12 versus Bauer. I just think there's a more respectful way to make it.

I would like to add that I was tempted to neg rep MuchadOboutManny for these posts as well--and I don't even have a dog in the fight. Might want to tone it down, MOM.