Duquette, "Our best players are going to come up through the farm system."

[atomic]

I think most teams are going to have their best players come from within. This year there wasn't even that much available through free agency. I mean even the the two guys who got the most ridiculous contracts have a lot of questions about their personal make-up. If I were an owner I could not have justified spending on what the top guys got this year.

Spending money to get the top scouts and the best guys for player development can be had for less than for what one top free agent costs. So it makes sense to work on improving in those areas. I think most everyone can agree that the scouting and player development has improved dramatically in the year or so that DD has been here.

I am glad that DD seems to get how important top fielders are to a team's success. And being sound fundamentally is so important. Just getting rid of reynolds and gregg helps the team a lot.

[Brendan25]

Why bother showing you any more quotes? You find a way to dismiss them anyhow. Was PA against FA when he signed Palmerio, Alomar, Surhoff, Belle? The facts are, we were led to believe MASN would give the Orioles the ability to up the payroll. And i'm not talking about going from 82M to 88M. I gave you what you asked for, and it's not enough. There's never going to be enough information to get you to believe any other way but your pov. Sometimes I wonder if you have an office at the warehouse.

This is a question because I have no idea, but when did that quote from Angelos come out?

I'm pretty sure it was 2006. And I'm pretty sure "could be wrong" that our payroll is going to be more then 88 this year. Again, I've said it before, if I'm wrong I'll say I'm wrong. I'm fine with a 100M contract this year and not overpaying on guys we shouldn't overpay for.

[CA-ORIOLE]

This is a question because I have no idea, but when did that quote from Angelos come out?

I'm pretty sure it was 2006. And I'm pretty sure "could be wrong" that our payroll is going to be more then 88 this year. Again, I've said it before, if I'm wrong I'll say I'm wrong. I'm fine with a 100M contract this year and not overpaying on guys we shouldn't overpay for.

Though there isn't clear documentation/proof, it seems pretty obvious the PA isn't utilizing MASN funds to support the team. Any increase in payroll this year is likely tied to attendance. Since most FA's are "overpaid", I'm not sure that's a rationale to shy away from them and not improve the team when you have the means to do so. That said, I don't see how continually dwelling on the fact that PA won't spend more/adequate money and that he is probably a liar accomplishes very much of anything.

[Dark Helmet]

This is a question because I have no idea, but when did that quote from Angelos come out?

I'm pretty sure it was 2006. And I'm pretty sure "could be wrong" that our payroll is going to be more then 88 this year. Again, I've said it before, if I'm wrong I'll say I'm wrong. I'm fine with a 100M contract this year and not overpaying on guys we shouldn't overpay for.

It really doesn't matter when PA made the comment. He told the fan's MASN would help make the O's more of a force in regards to finances. My comment's weren't based soley on 2013. It was more in regards that PA misled the fan's as to the impact MASN would have. While we don't know exactly how much MASN is bringing in, most reports we do get access to reflect that MASN is making PA a large chunk of money.

I've accpeted that the O's won't be a big player in FA. But we've seen incident's where player's were basically sold off to save money (Neshik, Bergeson). The fact Buck isn't locked up yet is a joke. You think the Yankees or Red Sox would take this long to extend a manager like Buck? It's just another sign of "the more things change, the more they stay the same".

It all comes down to money. PA is fighting the Nat's getting an increase from MASN so hard, because he'd have to put more MASN money into the O's too then. The payroll might go up some in 2013, though it's looking like not much. If it does, i'd say that has more to do with attendence/playoff revenues, then it does MASN. PA made a run in the mid-late 90's, but was that geared torwards winning, or was he trying to keep his high dollar corporate suites filled?

I just have doubt's to what really motivates PA as an owner. It doesn't seem to be winning. I repect PA a person. He has put a lot of money back into the community. But, a good person doesn't make a good owner of a sport's team.

[Frobby]

Though there isn't clear documentation/proof, it seems pretty obvious the PA isn't utilizing MASN funds to support the team. Any increase in payroll this year is likely tied to attendance. Since most FA's are "overpaid", I'm not sure that's a rationale to shy away from them and not improve the team when you have the means to do so. That said, I don't see how continually dwelling on the fact that PA won't spend more/adequate money and that he is probably a liar accomplishes very much of anything.

This is where I've been for quite some time. We will never know exactly how much the Orioles could spend if Angelos decided to pump some or all of the Oriole share of MASN's profits into the team. So, I'd rather spend my time thinking about how the O's GM should spend the money that he actually has available.

[Dark Helmet]

Though there isn't clear documentation/proof, it seems pretty obvious the PA isn't utilizing MASN funds to support the team. Any increase in payroll this year is likely tied to attendance. Since most FA's are "overpaid", I'm not sure that's a rationale to shy away from them and not improve the team when you have the means to do so. That said, I don't see how continually dwelling on the fact that PA won't spend more/adequate money and that he is probably a liar accomplishes very much of anything.

Your right, it doesn't do any good. It's just hard to not bring it up, when we are reminded of the fact every offseason. I for one won't talk about the budget during the season. But the O's don't give us much else to dwell on in the winter. This offseason has been especially hard, since it was assumed the FO would look to build on a playoff run in 2012. They contented last year, attendence was up, and revenues are up accross the boards. If now wasn't the time, then when will it be? I understand they have Wieter's ext on the horizon, but to do business with that as a big factor is a mistake. Other than Jones, who's on the book's? I guess Pete has to start saving up in his piggy bank for when Bundy, Gausman, and Machado become FA in 6 or 7 years? When does it stop?

[Dark Helmet]

This is where I've been for quite some time. We will never know exactly how much the Orioles could spend if Angelos decided to pump some or all of the Oriole share of MASN's profits into the team. So, I'd rather spend my time thinking about how the O's GM should spend the money that he actually has available.

I agree Frobby. But releasing Reynold's was money DD said could be better utilized to improve. Where has that money been used to improve the team? It's frustrating.

[TonySoprano]

This is where I've been for quite some time. We will never know exactly how much the Orioles could spend if Angelos decided to pump some or all of the Oriole share of MASN's profits into the team. So, I'd rather spend my time thinking about how the O's GM should spend the money that he actually has available.

..and how much is that?

[24fps]

I agree Frobby. But releasing Reynold's was money DD said could be better utilized to improve. Where has that money been used to improve the team? It's frustrating.

It's more than frustrating, it's infuriating. One consolation is that DD showed us last year he's not afraid of making moves at any time. I don't fault him for wanting to have some cash in reserve for unexpected opportunities, but to call the Orioles' offseason so far disappointing is being charitable.

[Brendan25]

It really doesn't matter when PA made the comment. He told the fan's MASN would help make the O's more of a force in regards to finances. My comment's weren't based soley on 2013. It was more in regards that PA misled the fan's as to the impact MASN would have. While we don't know exactly how much MASN is bringing in, most reports we do get access to reflect that MASN is making PA a large chunk of money.

I've accpeted that the O's won't be a big player in FA. But we've seen incident's where player's were basically sold off to save money (Neshik, Bergeson). The fact Buck isn't locked up yet is a joke. You think the Yankees or Red Sox would take this long to extend a manager like Buck? It's just another sign of "the more things change, the more they stay the same".

It all comes down to money. PA is fighting the Nat's getting an increase from MASN so hard, because he'd have to put more MASN money into the O's too then. The payroll might go up some in 2013, though it's looking like not much. If it does, i'd say that has more to do with attendence/playoff revenues, then it does MASN. PA made a run in the mid-late 90's, but was that geared torwards winning, or was he trying to keep his high dollar corporate suites filled?

I just have doubt's to what really motivates PA as an owner. It doesn't seem to be winning. I repect PA a person. He has put a lot of money back into the community. But, a good person doesn't make a good owner of a sport's team.

Here is where I think you are wrong in being mad at PA for that comment. He made it in 2006. In 2006 the O's payroll was 72M. He said that MASN would help raise that payroll and compete with the Yankees and Red Sox. If he could go back, I'm sure he would like to take that Yankees comment away. However, in 2006 the Red Sox payroll was 120M. Again, in hindsight, I doubt Angelos expected the Red Sox payroll to raise to 200M, but if in 2006 they were at 120, and we are at 100 this year, 30M more then we were in 06, I'm not sure how you can say that PA was BLATANTLY lying with those comments.

[Dark Helmet]

Here is where I think you are wrong in being mad at PA for that comment. He made it in 2006. In 2006 the O's payroll was 72M. He said that MASN would help raise that payroll and compete with the Yankees and Red Sox. If he could go back, I'm sure he would like to take that Yankees comment away. However, in 2006 the Red Sox payroll was 120M. Again, in hindsight, I doubt Angelos expected the Red Sox payroll to raise to 200M, but if in 2006 they were at 120, and we are at 100 this year, 30M more then we were in 06, I'm not sure how you can say that PA was BLATANTLY lying with those comments.

And like many have said, most likely the payroll increase you keep talking about is from att/playoff revenues from 2012 and not because of MASN. So yes, he BLANTANTLY lied about the finanicial impact MASN would have on the team. And what about PA comment about signing a big FA when the team was ready to contend? Next year Roberts will be gone, so that saves 10M. Teams get 25M. Only Jones is signed longterm. No FA worth talking about next winter. Payroll will once again be around 75-80M most likely.

[El Gordo]

Payroll isn't the only way to spend money on a club. Anybody know what we spend on scouting, player development, improved technology, and infrastucture? Has in increased under DD?

[scOtt]

..and how much is that?

Buck Saturday on Wall To Wall Baseball:

"I think our payroll's going to be over $90 (million), maybe more than that. "

[Can_of_corn]

Buck Saturday on Wall To Wall Baseball:

"I think our payroll's going to be over $90 (million), maybe more than that. "

Last season - Reynolds + Arbitration = 90 Million +.

[Brendan25]

And like many have said, most likely the payroll increase you keep talking about is from att/playoff revenues from 2012 and not because of MASN. So yes, he BLANTANTLY lied about the finanicial impact MASN would have on the team. And what about PA comment about signing a big FA when the team was ready to contend? Next year Roberts will be gone, so that saves 10M. Teams get 25M. Only Jones is signed longterm. No FA worth talking about next winter. Payroll will once again be around 75-80M most likely.

Payroll isn't the only way to spend money ofn a club. Anybody know what we spend on scouting, player development, improved technology, and infrastucture? Has in increased under DD?

What El Gordo said. Is the player payroll the only thing that has increased since then?