Orioles drop demand for Jay Bruce

[Boy Howdy]

I think Hamilton is very interesting too. If it was up to me, Hamilton would be a complicated decision: on the one hand this, on the other hand that. Tremendous upside, no doubt about that. But, since it's not up to me, I don't think that matters at all, simply because I expect that AM is not gonna touch him with a 10-foot pole... or anybody else whose name has popped up in same sentence with the word "trouble"...

I never knew until a few minutes ago how important ex-Reds manager Jerry Narron (and his brother) were to keeping Josh Hamilton on the right track.

Hamilton's trade out of Cincinnati may be related to Narron's dismissal, which meant that his "baby sitter" -so to speak- (Narron's brother) would no longer be employed by the organization.

Here are a couple links for anyone that's interested.

http://news.cincypost.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070703/SPT05/707030331/1027

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2926447

[raypetty]

As a Reds fan I would love very much to have Bedard in the #2 spot behind Harang and in front of Arroyo.But A deal of Bailey,Cueto, and Votto isnt nor should it happen.I know you guys are wanting 3 of these 4 Bailey,Cueto,EE,and Votto but its not going to happen.I could see WK giving up 2 of those 4 but not both Bailey and Cueto.I for one would love to see a deal of Cueto,Votto,Stubbs,Dorn,and Coffey for Bedard and Bradford.I think this is a fair trade on both sides.Talent going both ways and I believe the fans of both teams would be happy.I have a funny feeling that something will get done now that ths O's arent demanding Bruce in a trade.I believe AM starts out asking for 3 of the 4 but brings his asking price down in the coming days or in a week or so when he realizes that no one is going to give him that kind of return for Bedard.Heres to something getting worked out in the coming weeks for the fans of both teams sake.

If you and I were GM's the deal would be consumated.

[Greg Pappas]

Bailey/Cueto, Votto, and Stubbs for Bedard sounds good to me. Its not every day when the third best player coming back in a deal was drafted 8th overall and year and a half ago.

We see this the same way. Good post.

[Ruzious]

Toss out the EE thoughts. There's no point for either the O's or Reds to include him. He's their starting 3Bman, and his minor league stats show no reason to believe he has more upside than he's already shown in the majors. There's no point in adding an average 3Bman (below average defensively) to the trade when Cincy wants to keep him.

[Greg Pappas]

I never knew until a few minutes ago how important ex-Reds manager Jerry Narron (and his brother) were to keeping Josh Hamilton on the right track.

Hamilton's trade out of Cincinnati may be related to Narron's dismissal, which meant that his "baby sitter" -so to speak- (Narron's brother) would no longer be employed by the organization.

Here are a couple links for anyone that's interested.

http://news.cincypost.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070703/SPT05/707030331/1027

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2926447

Good info... thanks.

[fewfirstchoice]

Raypetty,its probably a good think you and I arent the GMs of these teams.But at least we would beable to make a trade happen pretty quickly.

Now I see people post that EE has below average D,which in my opinion is not correct.EE has great range and a very strong arm.If EE can get to the ball he can catch it.Now his problem is with throwing the ball when he gets it.But last year he cut his Es down by almost half and never threw nearly as many ball away in 07.EE may not ever be a gold glove winner but his D is above league average for sure.

[JTrea81]

What harm was it trying to go after him?

It was worth a shot, but we should have dropped the demand for him much sooner.

[LookitsPuck]

Sooner? Why? What harm was it? Plenty of time until ST, and the Reds aren't going anywhere anytime soon. MacPhail played it smart.

[Ruzious]

Raypetty,its probably a good think you and I arent the GMs of these teams.But at least we would beable to make a trade happen pretty quickly.

Now I see people post that EE has below average D,which in my opinion is not correct.EE has great range and a very strong arm.If EE can get to the ball he can catch it.Now his problem is with throwing the ball when he gets it.But last year he cut his Es down by almost half and never threw nearly as many ball away in 07.EE may not ever be a gold glove winner but his D is above league average for sure.

I'll give you that he's improved from the worst defensive 3Bman in the game to below average. Last year, besides the poor fielding percentage, he had only 2.48 total chances per game. If he has great range, then there's either something seriously wrong with his positioning, or his pitchers rarely get ground balls.

[Hank Scorpio]

Cue the Hallelujah Chorus...

Finally, MacPhail gets it, there was no way we were getting Bruce. Now just settle for one of Bailey and Cueto and then add Votto and we've got something...

This is how negotiations are done.

The catch is how long do you hold out before caving a shade. I would bet the farm that MacPhail never expected to get Jay Bruce back in this deal.

It's a good starting point.

[odogs101]

With Cincy's infield depth I would look to have Chris Valaika, Justin Turner, Juan Fransisco, or if you want to go the PTBNL route, Frazier or Cozart as the fourth/fifth guy.

[theobird]

With Cincy's infield depth I would look to have Chris Valaika, Justin Turner, Juan Fransisco, or if you want to go the PTBNL route, Frazier or Cozart as the fourth/fifth guy.

Please, there is not going to be a fifth unless the Orioles are going to expand the deal. If we are getting back Bailey/Cueto, Votto and Stubbs it should get done. If we have been offered all 4 of those guys it should have been done yesterday

[centralpaosfan]

Conversation between Flanny and McPhail this afternoon:

Flanny: Hey Andy, have you had a chance to check out OH today?

AM: No, why?

Flanny: Boy are they ticked off at the comment you made about Bedard

probably being our opening day starter.

AM: Really? Wow, I didn't realize the fans would monitor that closely. I

mean, we have had 10 strait losing seasons haven't we?

Flanny: I know, it's crazy.

AM: Do you have any ideas of what we can do?

Flanny: You could leak a rumor that we lowered our demands.

AM: Brilliant!! Do you think they would buy it?

Flanny: It works like a charm...trust me.

AM: I knew I kept you around for some reason.

Flanny: Thank you Mr. McPhail....happy holidays.

AM: You too Mike....go work your magic...oh...and happy holidays to you

as well.

Flanny: I'll place the call to my old bud Dempsey now.

[fewfirstchoice]

I think people on these message boards look way to hard at numbers these so called gurus come up with.I mean they are fat old men who probably never played a orgainzed game of baseball in there life.Or if they did they were the fat kids at the end of the bench that never go into any of games.I played coillege baseball at the D-1 level in college for 2 years and think I can judge talent when I see it.Saying this I have watched EE play in probably around 50 games over the last 3 years.Sure he was terrible his first year and not good his second year.But last year in the middle of the summer he improved greatly.You guys look at numbers way to much.I say go watch some of these palyers and see what you think.Over the time I have watched EE he has grown leaps and bounds both on the offensive end and the defensive end.But to say hes below average by looking at numbers that really mean nothing is totaly bull.Sure like I said he will never win a gold glove but he is much better than most people who have never watched him give him credit for.

[UMDTerrapins]

Conversation between Flanny and McPhail this afternoon:

Nice post. But it requires us to suspend reality in order to imagine them conversing.