Orioles drop demand for Jay Bruce

[Greg Pappas]

Tickle my fancy is an old phrase that basically translates to "Tickle my fantasy", meaning to positively see the possibilities in something.

FWIW hehe

Encarnacion is unlikely in my view, as he is a cheap and under control for years to come and seems to be just about to establish himself as their long-term answer at 3B.

[slaphitter]

I'd like to see Encarnacion added as sweetener to the deal.

Upsides and Upgrades Rule !!!!

Grow O's !!

[Greg Pappas]

And this is where I agree with you. If you're done f-ing around, then this is what you accept and be satisfied with. At least with EE, we can ship Mora out without thinking twice about it. Stubbs is vastly overrated anyway, I believe. I think even Luis Hernandez could pull out a .785 OPS in A ball at the age of 22. Was that guy honestly a 1st round pick?

From BA;

#5. Drew Stubbs, of Born: Oct. 4, 1984 • B-T: R-R • Ht: 6-5 • Wt: 190

Drafted: Texas, 2006 (1st round)

Background: Stubbs has been the object of scouts' attention since high school, when the Astros would have signed him for $900,000 as a third-round pick if the commissioner's office hadn't talked them out of it. After winning a College World Series championship at Texas, Stubbs went eighth overall in the 2006 draft and signed for $2 million.

Strengths: Stubbs' athleticism jumps out at first glance. He combines plus raw power with a gliding stride that swallows up giant swaths of real estate in the outfield. Though his speed was limited in 2007 by a nagging turf-toe injury, he's a plus-plus runner when healthy and has excellent instincts on the basepaths. He has a solid arm and led the Midwest League with 15 outfield assists.

Weaknesses: For a college product, Stubbs still has an extremely raw bat, which explains why the Reds left him at low Class A Dayton all season. He never has made consistent contact and he has struck out 206 times in 185 pro games. A late-season switch to choking up on the bat gave him better bat control. He fanned just twice in his first 42 at-bats after the switch and hit .366 with four homers in 24 games after the adjustment.

The Future: If Stubbs' improvement was for real, he has a chance to be a superstar because his power, speed and defense are all above average. If he continues to strike out, he still should be a big leaguer, albeit with a lower ceiling and average. He'll open 2008 in high Class A.

...............................

This is why he was so highly rated, because if he figures out how to hit consistently (that is the BIG question), he can be special. All other facets of his game are above average.

[dorfmac]

From BA;

#5. Drew Stubbs, of Born: Oct. 4, 1984 • B-T: R-R • Ht: 6-5 • Wt: 190

Drafted: Texas, 2006 (1st round)

Background: Stubbs has been the object of scouts' attention since high school, when the Astros would have signed him for $900,000 as a third-round pick if the commissioner's office hadn't talked them out of it. After winning a College World Series championship at Texas, Stubbs went eighth overall in the 2006 draft and signed for $2 million.

Strengths: Stubbs' athleticism jumps out at first glance. He combines plus raw power with a gliding stride that swallows up giant swaths of real estate in the outfield. Though his speed was limited in 2007 by a nagging turf-toe injury, he's a plus-plus runner when healthy and has excellent instincts on the basepaths. He has a solid arm and led the Midwest League with 15 outfield assists.

Weaknesses: For a college product, Stubbs still has an extremely raw bat, which explains why the Reds left him at low Class A Dayton all season. He never has made consistent contact and he has struck out 206 times in 185 pro games. A late-season switch to choking up on the bat gave him better bat control. He fanned just twice in his first 42 at-bats after the switch and hit .366 with four homers in 24 games after the adjustment.

The Future: If Stubbs' improvement was for real, he has a chance to be a superstar because his power, speed and defense are all above average. If he continues to strike out, he still should be a big leaguer, albeit with a lower ceiling and average. He'll open 2008 in high Class A.

...............................

This is why he was so highly rated, because if he figures out how to hit consistently (that is the BIG question), he can be special. All other facets of his game are above average.

I don't know man... If I'm selecting a college player first round, I want something a little more guarenteed. But I guess when you have OF like Jay Bruce to rely on, you can go a little more towards the high risk/high reward type picks. Either way, you'd hope his bat would be further along than it is now.

[JTrea81]

Tickle my fancy is an old phrase that basically translates to "Tickle my fantasy", meaning to positively see the possibilities in something.

FWIW hehe

Encarnacion is unlikely in my view, as he is a cheap and under control for years to come and seems to be just about to establish himself as their long-term answer at 3B.

I think there are still questions regarding his defense however and third base isn't a hard position to fill. I could see us throwing in Mora to play third for them or Huff, eating some salary in the process.

[Greg Pappas]

I don't know man... If I'm selecting a college player first round, I want something a little more guarenteed. But I guess when you have OF like Jay Bruce to rely on, you can go a little more towards the high risk/high reward type picks. Either way, you'd hope his bat would be further along than it is now.

I agree with you whole-heartedly. I have not been a fan of Stubbs as far back as H.S., because his inconsistency as a hitter was evident that far back. Great talent, started to figure things out at the tail end of the season, hitting well over .300 in just over 100 AB's to finish out on a high note. This occured after his hitting instructor told him to try choking up.... and it worked. He has hope still, but again, high risk/high reward type.

[MemphisOsFan]

At some point, you need to stop playing games...This negotiation tactic bs needs to stop.

The Reds aren't THAT desperate and there are other guys out there they could get for less....They want Bedard because he is the best out there but they aren't going to be stupid about it.

It seems to me that they would trade Cueto or Bailey and Votto...So, now what else do you ask for?

EE makes the most sense IMO as he has the highest upside and fills a potential hole(Moore can play everywhere).

My exact thoughts!! CIN (or other teams) don't have time for games when they are not desperate and can get another player and keep their prospects.

If we can get Votto, Cueto/Bailey and EE for Bedard, make that trade then move on to other pressing issue that should be addressed before the start of the season (i.e., trading Mora, Payton, etc).

[JTrea81]

I'm guessing we've closed up shop until the new year, but if we've dropped our demand for Bruce, we should be able to work out a deal pretty quickly with Cinci. I'm hoping it goes down right after New Year's.

[brvn52]

I'm guessing we've closed up shop until the new year, but if we've dropped our demand for Bruce, we should be able to work out a deal pretty quickly with Cinci. I'm hoping it goes down right after New Year's.

Yeah, you gotta wonder how much we were asking for. If we were asking for Bruce, Votto, and Bailey/Cueto and the Reds were still talking to us, then that means that we weren't THAT far off from a deal. Taking out arguably their most untouchable player from the deal frees up a LOT of options. A Bedard for 2 of Bailey/Cueto/Votto and Encarnacion deal wouldn't be out of the question IMO.

[BaltimoreTerp]

I was just about to post this.

http://frontier.cincinnati.com/blogs/redsinsider/2007/12/implications-of-hamilton-trade.asp

We need to stop thinking we are going to get those 3 as well.

Cueto OR Bailey and Votto need to be in the package.

Others who should be included are EE, Maloney and Stubbs.

(not saying all 3)

EE could make it just a 3 for 1 or the other 2 make it a 4 for 1.

If you are able to get all 3 of those guys and have to send Bradford and perhaps a mid level prospect(preferably on our 40 man), then you do that as well.

We don't need to STOP thinking it; the Reds could easily decide Bedard is worth it (and for all we know, which we don't, they may already have decided that and are just trying to wait US out). We just need to consider it a possibility and look at other options, both with and without the Reds, which I would guarantee is being done.

[oandb21]

What if we sent mora to philly for jason donald SS, and mayber eat some of his salary, send huff with Bedard to the red's and eat some of his salary.

[Greg Pappas]

I wonder how most of you would choose among the following, all final offers for EB...

#1. The Reds > RHSP's Bailey or Cueto (our choice), 1B Votto, CF Stubbs

#2. Mariners > CF Jones, C Clement or RHP Morrow, RHSP Tillman

#3. Rangers > OF Hamilton, RHSP Hurley, SS Andrus

#4. Keep EB.

........ I can hear the Jeopardy music playing in the background. =)

[Sports Guy]

I would propose this deal to the Reds:

Bedard

Millar

Bradford

Moore

for

Cueto or Bailey

Votto

EE

Stubbs

Maloney

Stanton

I would hate to see Moore go but the Reds may require him to platoon with Freel at third and I would prefer to have EE than Moore.

Stanton wasn't good last year and would just be a salary dump since they are taking on Bradford and Millar.

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/stats?playerId=2234

Millar becomes the second part of a platoon at first.

[Sports Guy]

I wonder how most of you would choose among the following, all final offers for EB...

#1. The Reds > RHSP's Bailey or Cueto (our choice), 1B Votto, CF Stubbs

#2. Mariners > CF Jones, C Clement or RHP Morrow, RHSP Tillman

#3. Rangers > OF Hamilton, RHSP Hurley, SS Andrus

#4. Keep EB.

........ I can hear the Jeopardy music playing in the background. =)

Mariners first(assuming Clement)

Reds second.

Keep him third.

Rangers fourth.

[JTrea81]

I wonder how most of you would choose among the following, all final offers for EB...

#1. The Reds > RHSP's Bailey or Cueto (our choice), 1B Votto, CF Stubbs

#2. Mariners > CF Jones, C Clement or RHP Morrow, RHSP Tillman

#3. Rangers > OF Hamilton, RHSP Hurley, SS Andrus

#4. Keep EB.

........ I can hear the Jeopardy music playing in the background. =)

SG kinda posted a similar poll earlier, but I'd take option #1 and re-sign Patterson for one year.