Ken Rosenthal's take on where Soriono will go?!?!

[rolliefingers]

No one is arguing that we do not need a big-money FA to have a good team.

But, if one is available and we can afford it, especially at a position of need- why not ? It makes us that much better than another older stopgap or middle of the road player. Not to mention that signing a superstar does improve the morale of the team and energizes the fans more than a yawner of a signing.

This is where you lose many- Ordonez has "NOTHING" to do with their success ? Dumbrowski, Leyland, and the other 24 players would laugh at that assessment. He didn't have a typical Ordonez year, but he hit 24 HR, 104 RBI, and an .827 OPS which is higher than Tejada's career avg (and he is a pretty good player), and higher than our RF (.791) and I doubt people here would say that Markakis didn't add value to our lineup.

The difference between the Orioles goes way beyond the pitching. It starts at the top with the owner/GM/mgr and how the organization is run.

We aren't just a little luck away from being the Tigers.

What I'm saying is that lots of OFs put up an .827 OPS last year for far less money. Among them: Jacque Jones, our old friend Gary Matthews, Austin Kearns. Hell, Emil Brown put up an .815!

I'm sure DET has zero buyer's remorse on Maggs at this point. They rolled the dice, it worked out for them, congrats to them. But to hold that up as a sustainable business model is nuts. How are they going to feel about that contract when they want to lock up Bonderman and Verlander? Will he be their Albert Belle?

And that's what I'm worried about with Soriano. I'd rather spend that money on several short-term deals for solid players than on one astronomical long-term deal for one player. I know everyone wants to stick it to Angelos, but until he commits to a payroll of $100 million or so (and who really thinks that will happen?), those kinds of contracts will hinder this franchise. We'll be cutting off our nose to spite our face...or something.

[ScottieBaseball]

The problem is as as player gets older, the possibility of injuries go way up. So, even though Soriano has been pretty durable now, it doesn't mean that will continue.

Wouldn't you agree, though, that this overall, broad mentality when it comes to prospective free agents and trades is what has prevented us from making a significant upgrade (aside from Tejada) over the last few years?

Soriano presents a significant upgrade at a position of need. He is one of the game's superstars. I could see if at the end of a 6-year contract he was going to be 38 or 39, but he'll be 36 years old at the end of that deal.

I understand and agree that free agents should be analyzed in just such a fashion and your concern is valid, but I question the likelihood of that scenario panning out.

If the choices are between overpaying for Soriano and platooning 2 guys, I say break out the checkbook. No one is going to come back to Oriole Park to watch Dellucci and Catallanotto, but people will come back to watch one of the most fierce hitters in baseball.

On the subject of platooning...I don't think it's an ideal situation to have 2 MLB'ers splitting time at a position going into spring training. Every guy wants a full-time job and I can't envision a situation where 2 guys like Dellucci and Cat would A) be agreeable to a scenario in which they're not even coming in to compete for the full-time job, and B) agree to all of that here in Baltimore. Maybe if it was for a legitimate contender, yes. It might be worth a slightly-more-than part-time role to get a ring, but not here.

I think platoons just sort of evolve out of necessity and exhausting other options. Hopefully it doesn't come down to that in 2007 for the O's.

[66-70-83-??]

Certainly not worth the $15m a year owed to him the next 5 years.

First of all, his "worth" is subjective. To you or me, he may not be worth it.

But, to the Tigers and their fans he may be. Or they may not care. Whatever he or any other player is worth- the sum total of the team is worth what the owner is paying.

Second- that wasn't what I took issue with. I took issue with the statement that "Ordonez had NOTHING to do with the their success".

I don't believe that. Do you ?

What is that? Your saying that Ordonez is better than Tejada?

Not now he isn't. But, over his total career he has been.

[geschinger]

If "ifs" and "buts" were candies and nuts, everyday would be Christmas

Just makling a point that cannot be refuted.

[geschinger]

Soriano presents a significant upgrade at a position of need. He is one of the game's superstars. I could see if at the end of a 6-year contract he was going to be 38 or 39, but he'll be 36 years old at the end of that deal.

Is he though? If I thought we'd get performance similar to this year throughout the contract I might feel differently. However, I think he's a lot more likely to perform at a similar level to the one he performed at in Texas than he is to perform like he did in Washington. And in that not unlikely scenario I think we'd be paying superstar prices for a level of production not close to superstar levels.

[Boca Bird]

Just makling a point that cannot be refuted.

Just making a hypothetical point that has no relevance whatsoever to actual reality.

[geschinger]

First of all, his "worth" is subjective. To you or me, he may not be worth it.

But, to the Tigers and their fans he may be. Or they may not care. Whatever he or any other player is worth- the sum total of the team is worth what the owner is paying.

Do you think he'll be considered worth it to the Tigers and their fans if the Tigers can't resign Bonderman for financial reasons?

[geschinger]

Just making a hypothetical point that has no relevance whatsoever to actual reality.

If you don't think Detroits pitching was the primary reason for their success then I can't help you.

All I know is if Baltimore's young pitching develops and we put up a 3.84 ERA next year that we are going to win a heck of a lot of games regardless of whether we take risks and overpay for Ordonez type talent.

[Boca Bird]

Your point is irrelevant to what mweb8 was saying. He was only talking about offense, and he was only talking about during the period covered by the players' current contracts. Pudge's offense has slipped badly the least 2 years and I think it is fair to say Ramon is the better offensive player, just as Miggy is a better offensive player than Ordonez now.

Pudge's defense might be irrelevant to MWeb, but I don't agree, and I certainly don't think the Tigers would agree.

I happen to agree with you, however, that Pudge's defense cannot be ignored when analyzing the imapct of that acquisition. He's awesome. And his history with both the Marlins and the Tigers shows he's very adept at handling young pitchers.

Exactly. To a man, that staff flushes with praise for how much Pudge has helped them develop, even that 41 yr old youngster , KRog.

[Boca Bird]

]If you don't think Detroits pitching was the primary reason for their success then I can't help you.[/i]

All I know is if Baltimore's young pitching develops and we put up a 3.84 ERA next year that we are going to win a heck of a lot of games regardless of whether we take risks and overpay for Ordonez type talent.

I do think their pitching was a huge factor. I've never said that it wasn't. I'm also capable of seeing that their free agents signings helped too. Moreover, the success of their young pitching is why I think the O's should take risks too on some FA's to help our young pitching.

Who knew, you can develop your own players and use free agency

[geschinger]

Who knew, you can develop your own players and use free agency

Wow! Something I can agree with!

We've matched Detroit in using free agency, where we've fallen short is on the develop your own player portion of the formula. If we can match their success in the development of players, we too can be a winning team!

[ScottieBaseball]

Who knew, you can develop your own players and use free agency

QUICK! Somebody call the Warehouse and let them know! Go figure...for the last decade or so we've been almost entirely inept at both!

[geschinger]

QUICK! Somebody call the Warehouse and let them know! Go figure...for the last decade or so we've been almost entirely inept at both!

While they haven't had optimal success in FA losing out on a couple of guys that would of been nice to have wearing orange and black (Vlad) to say they've been entirely inept is way off base.

The Orioles have been more successful in free agency than many teams over the past couple of years. No long term albatross contracts and a couple of very good signings - Tejada and Hernandez. Inept PR when it comes to FA but there is no compelling argument that can be made that the results indicate ineptness.

However, the franchise has been inept at player development, but surely you'd agree that things have gotten significantly better in that regard over the past couple of years. Unfortunately it takes a while to build things back up after years of neglect.

[osfan83]

While they haven't had optimal success in FA losing out on a couple of guys that would of been nice to have wearing orange and black (Vlad) to say they've been entirely inept is way off base.

The Orioles have been more successful in free agency than many teams over the past couple of years. No long term albatross contracts and a couple of very good signings - Tejada and Hernandez. Inept PR when it comes to FA but there is no compelling argument that can be made that the results indicate ineptness.

However, the franchise has been inept at player development, but surely you'd agree that things have gotten significantly better in that regard over the past couple of years. Unfortunately it takes a while to build things back up after years of neglect.

Becaue we all know the goal is to not be saddled with any long term bad contrats.

I'd rather win 84 games with some bad contracts than win 70 games without any bad contracts.

[rolliefingers]

Becaue we all know the goal is to not be saddled with any long term bad contrats.

I'd rather win 84 games with some bad contracts than win 70 games without any bad contracts.

How about we win 84 games with several short-term deals instead? Or would that not "excite the fan base" enough?

I guarantee you that if this team plays well again next year, people will come back, Soriano or no. It's about putting a good team on the field that is sustainable. Forget all this "the fans want to see money spent" stuff. The fans want to see a winner, period. The question is how do we get there. I do not think Soriano is the answer.