Jump to content

Why is our number 1 prospect being used for 1 inning out of the pen?

Norfolk orioles

By Norfolk orioles
in Orioles Talk

Recommended Posts

oriolesmagic9 Major Leaguer

oriolesmagic9

Posted
Posted
Surprised anyone can gripe about our #1 prospect being in the big leagues the summer after he was drafted, no matter what the capacity is.

I'd rather have him up here in the pen in a winning environment surrounded by guys like Davis, Machado, Markakis and McClouth instead of starting every 5th day in Bowie.

Lol, no kidding. Jeez, there must be something wrong if the O's don't win every game. I have no problem with it if the O's choose to keep him here or send him down. They have made allot of good decisions recently. See recent results as a reference if you need one. I trust them.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
  • Replies 69
  • Created
  • Last Reply
oriolesmagic9 Major Leaguer

oriolesmagic9

Posted
Posted
You know for years it was not uncommon for highly thought of SP prospects to work out of the BP

If I recall correctly Jim Palmer started like 6 or 7 games his rookie year and made like 20 or so appearances out of the pen

If ye

You beat me to it. People act like this is a completely foreign concept. I think the big money is why you don't see it as much today. Teams have to quickly justify those big signing bonuses. Not saying the O's are doing that, but it goes on.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
isestrex Hangout Grand Counsel

isestrex

Posted
Posted

The Cardinals have been very successful sending their best arms to the bullpen first only to later integrate them into the rotation.

Shelby Miller, Lance Lynn, Jamie Garcia, and Adam Wainwright (that's 4/5 of their current rotation) all started their careers in the St. Louis bullpen before getting promoted. Trevor Rosenthal is another highly touted prospect that is currently in the bullpen but might migrate to the rotation if needed.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Norfolk orioles Hangout Grand Counsel

Norfolk orioles

Posted
  • Author
Posted

As long as its temporary I'm fine with it.....but my point was still valid, we need him to be a very good starter next year more than we need him out of the bullpen this year to win games.

I'd rather him be in Norfolk working on that curveball every fifth day than pitching an inning out of the pen in early July.

Like I said if its just temporary then that's ok but long term, keep him in Norfolk and keep him as a starter. Trying to make him a David price like player is a bit much, he's got great stuff but he doesn't have anywhere near the control price had when he was doing what he did.

Gausman still needs work.....price didnt need much at all.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
oriolesmagic9 Major Leaguer

oriolesmagic9

Posted
Posted
The Cardinals have been very successful sending their best arms to the bullpen first only to later integrate them into the rotation.

Shelby Miller, Lance Lynn, Jamie Garcia, and Adam Wainwright (that's 4/5 of their current rotation) all started their careers in the St. Louis bullpen before getting promoted. Trevor Rosenthal is another highly touted prospect that is currently in the bullpen but might migrate to the rotation if needed.

Yeah, but how has it worked out for the Cardinals? Oh yeah, consistently good. Stop posting stuff that makes sense.:agree:

Link to comment
Share on other sites
oriolesmagic9 Major Leaguer

oriolesmagic9

Posted
Posted
As long as its temporary I'm fine with it.....but my point was still valid, we need him to be a very good starter next year more than we need him out of the bullpen this year to win games.

I'd rather him be in Norfolk working on that curveball every fifth day than pitching an inning out of the pen in early July.

Like I said if its just temporary then that's ok but long term, keep him in Norfolk and keep him as a starter. Trying to make him a David price like player is a bit much, he's got great stuff but he doesn't have anywhere near the control price had when he was doing what he did.

Gausman still needs work.....price didnt need much at all.

I actually agree with pretty much all of that. He's not our next ace out of the bullpen. We need him to be a future starter. I'm in favor of whatever best accomplishes this. If that means a trip back to the minors, I'll help him pack.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
sfosfan Major Leaguer Cup of Coffee

sfosfan

Posted
Posted
In borderline mop up duty?

How does that make any sense?

Send him down, let him start every fifth day and bring up ascensio or Rauch for relief duty.

But don't get him "unstretched out", if you will.

He needs to be starting, wherever that is.

Oh, THAT #1 prospect- I thought you were talking about former prospect Brian Matusz. :D

What's not to like about Kevin pitching mop up duty? Someone needed to come in, why not Kevin? Kevin isn't going to do this much so Buck is saving the other arms. It's also a good sign that Chen is real close to coming back. I really liked the move. Let Kevin come in to pitch with absolutely no pressure. Every little bit of experience Kevin can get is only going to help right now, especially if Kevin progresses to become a valuable arm for the playoff stretch. No harm, no foul.

But I guess you could prepare Kevin for the playoffs by pitching against AAA hitters every fifth day. That must be what's going on with Jake Arrieta. :rolleyes:

Link to comment
Share on other sites
mark_beckens Major Leaguer Rising Star

mark_beckens

Posted
Posted
Actually I beg to differ. I think talent wise he has more stuff than anyone on our staff. Which would make him "better" eventually with good commad, having said that, I agree he is probably not ready for a starting spot in a major-league rotation....maybe. But also could be very valuable and productive and developed out of our bullpen.

Confused you say you disagree then agree with me, which is it?

Link to comment
Share on other sites
oriolesmagic9 Major Leaguer

oriolesmagic9

Posted
Posted
As long as its temporary I'm fine with it.....but my point was still valid, we need him to be a very good starter next year more than we need him out of the bullpen this year to win games.

I'd rather him be in Norfolk working on that curveball every fifth day than pitching an inning out of the pen in early July.

Like I said if its just temporary then that's ok but long term, keep him in Norfolk and keep him as a starter. Trying to make him a David price like player is a bit much, he's got great stuff but he doesn't have anywhere near the control price had when he was doing what he did.

Gausman still needs work.....price didnt need much at all.

Hey Norfolk, I hope you don't think I was giving you a hard time. I wasn't, but I can come across as a real jerk after the O's lose. I realize you started this thread because you want Gausman to reach his potential with the O's.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
mark_beckens Major Leaguer Rising Star

mark_beckens

Posted
Posted
The Cardinals have been very successful sending their best arms to the bullpen first only to later integrate them into the rotation.

Shelby Miller, Lance Lynn, Jamie Garcia, and Adam Wainwright (that's 4/5 of their current rotation) all started their careers in the St. Louis bullpen before getting promoted. Trevor Rosenthal is another highly touted prospect that is currently in the bullpen but might migrate to the rotation if needed.

:agree: yes yes and yes! They allow their pitchers to get their feet wet in the pen, get some confidence and learn how to pitch 1-2 innings at a time in the ML, then let them start.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Norfolk orioles Hangout Grand Counsel

Norfolk orioles

Posted
  • Author
Posted
Oh, THAT #1 prospect- I thought you were talking about former prospect Brian Matusz. :D

What's not to like about Kevin pitching mop up duty? Someone needed to come in, why not Kevin? Kevin isn't going to do this much so Buck is saving the other arms. It's also a good sign that Chen is real close to coming back. I really liked the move. Let Kevin come in to pitch with absolutely no pressure. Every little bit of experience Kevin can get is only going to help right now, especially if Kevin progresses to become a valuable arm for the playoff stretch. No harm, no foul.

But I guess you could prepare Kevin for the playoffs by pitching against AAA hitters every fifth day. That must be what's going on with Jake Arrieta. :rolleyes:

As I said as long as its just temporary I'm fine but LONG TERM we need him as a valuable starter more than we need him as a valuable bullpen piece for one season.

He's not a finished project as a starter. But we need him to be next year. We don't really have time for him to work in the pen for 1 inning at a time doing mop up duty.

Understand?

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Norfolk orioles Hangout Grand Counsel

Norfolk orioles

Posted
  • Author
Posted
Hey Norfolk, I hope you don't think I was giving you a hard time. I wasn't, but I can come across as a real jerk after the O's lose. I realize you started this thread because you want Gausman to reach his potential with the O's.

No worries, we all just want what's best for the team, which is why we are all here espousing our equally unqualified opinions. Ha

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Moose Milligan Hangout Grand Counsel

Moose Milligan

Posted
Posted
Hey Norfolk, I hope you don't think I was giving you a hard time. I wasn't, but I can come across as a real jerk after the O's lose. I realize you started this thread because you want Gausman to reach his potential with the O's.

Man, you must have been a real joy to be around from 1998-2011 ;)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

Go to topic listing

  • Posts

    • 24fps
      The Marlins are officially selling. Tanner Scott for Povich?

      By 24fps · Posted

      I agree with both points.  Elias is too smart to pay top dollar for last year's performance when Scott has started the season so comparatively badly.  The O's are too competitive this year to screw around with what amounts to reclamation project.
    • CHIP
      Maverick Handley 2024

      By CHIP · Posted

      There has been a lot of talk of the pitchers improvement recently.  Both the AAA and the rehab of the MLB guys.  Since our household pays more attention to the guys behind the dish, and my son's Asperger's lets him enjoy the numbers, I thought it would be a good time to get some AAA info going as most eyes are on Basallo and his recovery/progression. Handley appears to be the primary 2024 catcher for the AAA Norfolk Tide.  This is the first year Handley is repeating a level in the minors (AAA) beyond the 1 week rehab with Bowie last year.  He has not been assigned to the taxi squad in 2024. This time last year he was injured so he only had 45 ABs.  His stats were .222/.407/.267/.779.  In 15 games he only had 2 doubles. Thru 21 games so far this season (20 C, 1 DH) he has 88 PA (75 AB).  this is 1/3 of his TOTAL AAA AB's in 2023.  He is batting .240/.352/.427/.779.  Including 6 2B, 1 3B, 2 HR.  Biggest change is his SLG is up nearly 160 points from this time in 2023.  His K rate is down 3% TO 21.6.  He also went into and came out of ST healthy and hasn't spent any time on the DL. Fangraphs 2023 end of year vs 2024 stats to date.  ISO is up from .093 to .187.  wRC is up from 89 to 105. These numbers put him in the top 3 of the International league's qualified catchers. Defensively, It is my opinion he has been too aggressive throwing the ball to 2nd resulting is a few skipped balls the infield could not come up.  These seem to happen in games where he is trying to help a struggling pitcher.  I imagine this would drop if he moves up.  His knowledge of the strike zone shows thru on the F/S/Sun games. From battery perspective, my son crunched some numbers for Norfolk's starting pitchers and 3 catchers to date (some of the AAA starters pitched after the MLB guys so even though relief, including these innings as starter innings.  The MLB rehabbers have been Bradish (2 Games / 8.1 Innings), Means (6/18.2), and Suarez (3/15.1) just 1 start.  Handley has caught all but 3.1 inning of Means.  Perez caught Means on 4/17 for the 1/3 inning he couldn't make it out of. The AAA guys are: McDermott (7G/28 Innings) who Handley has caught all but the 4/27 game where McDermott didn't get out of 1st inning (Perez).  Povich (6G/32.1).  Handley caught 4 to Perez's 2.  Povich has lasted 5 innings or better in all but one (4.2).    Armbruester is the one who seems to be inconsistent this year (6G/19.2) with Banuelos game 1, Handley games 2, 3, 5, and Perez Games 4 & 6 (which is the .1 inning game (Are you starting to see the pattern I have seen with Perez catching?)  Handley has caught 13 of the 19.2 innings but only 7 of the 25 runs scored against him.  Vs. the 18 in 6.2 innings with Banuelos and Perez.  Zimmerman is the only one who has been caught more by Perez than Handley.  3G to 2G.  Perez has caught 14.2 Innings/14 runs.  Handley has caught 10 innings, 3 runs (2 earned). In 31 games there have been 154innings from starting pitchers,                      Starts      IP      H      R     ER    BB    SO      ERA       H/9      BB/9      K/9 Banuelos         2        8.1     14    11    10       3       9    10.80    15.12      3.24        9.72 Handley         20    111.1     90    51    45    52    135      3.64      7.28      4.20     10.91 Perez              9         33      39    35    32    24      43      8.73    10.64      6.55      11.73   My son and I am are 'Handley Fans' and this data is available to all.  I am seeing that he isn't an all-star prospect but seems his time may be coming.  I  can't imagine the O's don't see this as well.  With McCann and Rutschman both healthy and doing reasonably well, if there is any injury with significant time to be missed, I think it may be Handley's chance to get his cup of coffee and maybe even a danish. I can't see Perez sticking around past his opt out date.  Banuelos is making a nice check on the Taxi Squad. Down in AA, Basallo has just started catching again (2 game) and his bat has been picking up.  Ardoin started very hot but has since cooled 5-12 in first 4 games, 7-30 the rest of April and 1-13 in May.  Pavolony appears to be healthy for the 1st time in his O's MILB career.  Was over .300 but has dipped the past 5 games to .239.  He is Rule 5 eligible and based on the depth above him... likely hoping for an opportunity elsewhere. Willems is hitting well in A+ but there is going to have to be movement up the ladder to make some room.  I think something could happen August or later. 
    • Philip
      The Marlins are officially selling. Tanner Scott for Povich?

      By Philip · Posted

      I think it is ridiculous to be interested in Scott at all, so before a poll requesting a decision on Povich versus Scott, it would be better to have a vote on whether we want Scott at all, and I vote no. They are just too many other better guys, plus Scott is terrible. How about Adam Cimber? Seriously I think Mike is going to roll with the guys he has, but God be praised, He got rid of Ramirez.
    • Malike
      Reds Series

      By Malike · Posted

      Never a doubt.
    • baltfan
      Vs. LHP

      By baltfan · Posted

      Abbott ate the Orioles up last year.  Hopefully they will do better this year. 
    • baltfan
      Cade Povich 2024

      By baltfan · Posted

      The only issue I have with your take is it doesn’t seem like you are that familiar with the stuff.  You said Vespi and Coloumbe threw harder. That’s just patently wrong.  That makes me wonder how well you know Povich as well as the others. 
    • Orioles Jim
      Reds Series

      By Orioles Jim · Posted

      Gahhhhh

  • Popular Contributors

×
×
  • Create New...