Luis Hernandez shining in Winter League playoffs

[The Wedge]

Well, this explains a *whole* lot. Just from little things that people had said here and there, I figured "fantasy baseball" was part of the problem with people not understanding how Actual Baseball works. But I had no idea that it went *so* far that D is not even part of the game.

Why should fantasy baseball use D? Because it's *pretending* to be baseball, that's why. If the whole dang thing is based on just hitting and pitching stats, then they shouldn't call it "Baseball". Because it's not. It can't be Baseball if 1/3 of what makes up the entire sport is completely missing. How crazy is that? That's be like people making up NFL rosters based on what they'd "learned" from playing some kind of "fantasy football" that pretends that linebackers don't even exist.

They should call it "Computerball" or "Batting Practice" or "OPS Derby" or something like that. But they shouldn't call it "Baseball". With one-third of the whole sport completely missing, that's just a blatant lie. No wonder people are saying dumb stuff left and right.

Your adding 2 and 2 and getting 5, quite frankly. Fantasy football uses defense because it's easily quantifiable. And I remember one league I used to be in for baseball did use the one quantifiable defense stat there is: the error. Otherwise, it's a crapshoot. All the good quantifiable stats are offensive in baseball. Plus, pitching is technically defense, and that counts.

[Frobby]

Why should fantasy baseball use D? Because it's *pretending* to be baseball, that's why.

Not really. I haven't been in a fantasy league in more than a decade, but there was no illusion that you were trying to pick a team that would win in "real" baseball. You were trying to pick a team that would do well in selected statistical categories. At least when I was doing it, stolen bases and saves were vastly overemphasized, for example.

[hanOverfan]

Correct me if I am wrong, but players with better stats usually are the better players. This has nothing to do with fantasy baseball, it has everything to do with common sense.

[Sports Guy]

Your adding 2 and 2 and getting 5, quite frankly. Fantasy football uses defense because it's easily quantifiable. And I remember one league I used to be in for baseball did use the one quantifiable defense stat there is: the error. Otherwise, it's a crapshoot. All the good quantifiable stats are offensive in baseball. Plus, pitching is technically defense, and that counts.

Stop bringing common sense into the equation...This is just more rshack's crusade to make defense the end all be all and his assertion that no one cares about it.

In other words..more bs.

[RShack]

Not really. I haven't been in a fantasy league in more than a decade, but there was no illusion that you were trying to pick a team that would win in "real" baseball. You were trying to pick a team that would do well in selected statistical categories. At least when I was doing it, stolen bases and saves were vastly overemphasized, for example.

Well, you were looking at fantasy baseball vs. actual baseball, and you were noticing and appreciating the differences. I'm pretty sure that not everybody does that. For example, in another thread about guess-what, Some Guy was supposedly proving his point my listing stats for O and P, while not even mentioning the available data for D. So, while *you* don't do it, it seems to me that a lot of folks form opinions based on completely ignoring the impact of D.

[JohnD]

FWIW, the O's were never going to draft Drew that year.

[El Gordo]

Ace,

I read through the thread. So what? He is still terrible! So you like the idea of having a .600 ops ss? This is not the National League. I don't care about guys who can only play D. LH is a bum and so is Fahey. Neither of them should even sniff an MLB 40 man. Especially on an AL team.

I'm glad some of the guys who are for LH are not the GM. So LH plays great D huh? If that contributes 3 more wins for this team I would be surprised. What does this team need 3 more wins for? That is not going to help at all. This team is terrible and needs to rebuild....... Put my sister at short for all I care.

I find that hard to believe.

[Sports Guy]

Well, you were looking at fantasy baseball vs. actual baseball, and you were noticing and appreciating the differences. I'm pretty sure that not everybody does that. For example, in another thread about guess-what, Some Guy was supposedly proving his point my listing stats for O and P, while not even mentioning the available data for D. So, while *you* don't do it, it seems to me that a lot of folks form opinions based on completely ignoring the impact of D.

Again, this only exists in your mind...The mind where you ignore what people are actually saying.

[Lucky Jim]

Well, you were looking at fantasy baseball vs. actual baseball, and you were noticing and appreciating the differences. I'm pretty sure that not everybody does that. For example, in another thread about guess-what, Some Guy was supposedly proving his point my listing stats for O and P, while not even mentioning the available data for D. So, while *you* don't do it, it seems to me that a lot of folks form opinions based on completely ignoring the impact of D.

You're starting to sound strident and reactionary, Shack. Yes, defense is undervalued. No, fantasy baseball (and OPS) are not are not root of all evil. Say it with me. Please.

[DrungoHazewood]

So, while *you* don't do it, it seems to me that a lot of folks form opinions based on completely ignoring the impact of D.

A lot of people do a lot of dumb things. They ignore minor league numbers. They ignore park effects. They ignore age and it's likely effects on performance. They listen to fantastic stories about oldtimers and elect undeserving folks to the Hall of Fame while ignoring piles of data about better players.

Most of us mark people's opinions down for this kind of thing and move on.

[RShack]

Your adding 2 and 2 and getting 5, quite frankly. Fantasy football uses defense because it's easily quantifiable. And I remember one league I used to be in for baseball did use the one quantifiable defense stat there is: the error. Otherwise, it's a crapshoot. All the good quantifiable stats are offensive in baseball...

Well, my point was not about fantasy football, it was about fantasy baseball which seems to have an unfortunately large impact on the thinking of some people.

I agree that stats are by far the weakest at quantifying the impact of D. But saying that E's are all we have just isn't true. There are other more-meaningful things, like RZR and OOZ. The problem is that we don't know a good way to turn them into DR for an individual guy, so they aren't readily useful. (Evidently somebody knows how, but it's a secret, and you have to pay money to see the results for everybody except the top and bottom few guys.) So, while you do have a point about how D presents the stat-guys with a harder problem than they know what to do with, that doesn't mean that I'm adding 2 + 2 and getting 5. If fantasy baseball doesn't even include D, then any lessons people think they learn from fantasy baseball about the value of position players are just "fantasy lessons" that, in the general case, are blatantly wrong because they completely ignore *half* of the equation. Doing that is exactly the same as saying: 2 + (a very significant factor that we completely ignore) = 2. That's exactly what it's doing.

As best we know so far, what matters is a position player's Total Runs, and RC is just half of that equation. If you ignore D, then you're ignoring the other half. Basing your thinking on fantasy baseball is exactly the same kind of thinking MFY fans use when they say Jeter is a good SS. It's exactly the same thing.

ps: I'm not saying that everybody who says goofy things does so because of fantasy baseball. Nor am I saying that everybody who plays fantasy baseball says goofy things. However, I do suspect that there is a non-trivial correlation ;-)

[The Wedge]

Yikes, man.

It's just a game. A game based on another game at that. No need to get your knickers in a pinch.

[RShack]

Yikes, man.

It's just a game. A game based on another game at that. No need to get your knickers in a pinch.

Oh, I don't care about fantasy baseball. (I just think they should call it "OPS Derby" instead ;-)

The only reason I care is because it seems to have a completely unwarranted and blatantly-wrong influence on how people weigh things when it comes to Actual Baseball.

[The Wedge]

Oh, I don't care about fantasy baseball. (I just think they should call it "OPS Derby" instead ;-)

The only reason I care is because it seems to have a completely unwarranted and blatantly-wrong influence on how people weigh things when it comes to Actual Baseball.

Only the morons who already thought wrong. The only time I get fantasy angst is when somebody is like "well, we lost, but at least *player x* did well, he's on my fantasy team." A common thing and to which "nobody cares about your fantasy team but you" spawned.

[DrungoHazewood]

Oh, I don't care about fantasy baseball. (I just think they should call it "OPS Derby" instead ;-)

The only reason I care is because it seems to have a completely unwarranted and blatantly-wrong influence on how people weigh things when it comes to Actual Baseball.

I think most people who play fantasy baseball and allow it to have unwarranted influence over how they see real baseball probably had some screwy views of the game to begin with. If anything it's turning people who thought Sportscenter highlights and gold gloves were the only way to measure defense into people who at least know what WHIP is.