Duquette owes it to the team and City to go for it...

[Can_of_corn]

Agreed, I would always trade prospects for proven talent..

Its much more likely that Bundy or Harvey will be nothing special then superstars.

You know what is good about prospects?

They are a lot cheaper then proven talent.

Unless you want a 200 million budget you need to have significant parts of your team making at or near the ML minimum.

[DrungoHazewood]

Agreed, I would always trade prospects for proven talent..

Its much more likely that Bundy or Harvey will be nothing special then superstars.

You realize that's an unsustainable strategy, and Sale is a special case, right? Sale is essentially unobtainable because he's both excellent and has a long, affordable, team-friendly contract. The White Sox would be idiots to trade him for anything short of extortionist rates. And if you make a habit of trading your highly-regarded prospects for established talent you very quickly exceed Mr. Angelos' budget. The Orioles have to count on one or two of Bundy, Harvey, etc to become productive, inexpensive pitchers for the team to succeed. Unless Angelos sells out to a very rich guy who doesn't care a bit about losing truckloads of cash.

[Aristotelian]

Duquette owes it to the team and the city to do what is in the best interest of the Baltimore Orioles. If you think we should mortgage the future to go for it now, that is your judgment call.

Keep in mind, we got here by a lucky trade that brought in prospects (not vice versa) and building from within.

[mskrulz]

If we are so hung up on statistics and probabilities please tell me what the percentages are that Bundy and or Harvey actually turn into quality major league pitchers and that we will get back to this point again?

[weams]

Duquette does not owe me.

[weams]

If we are so hung up on statistics and probabilities please tell me what the percentages are that Bundy and or Harvey actually turn into quality major league pitchers and that we will get back to this point again?

I believe that we have mores sustainable model than people with your veiw, which there are many.

[Can_of_corn]

If we are so hung up on statistics and probabilities please tell me what the percentages are that Bundy and or Harvey actually turn into quality major league pitchers and that we will get back to this point again?

How are you planning to pay for this team?

You just going to go all Marlins and have an off-season sell off?

[DrungoHazewood]

If we are so hung up on statistics and probabilities please tell me what the percentages are that Bundy and or Harvey actually turn into quality major league pitchers and that we will get back to this point again?

We'll probably never get back to this point if they start trading the future for guys making a ton of money, and then they can't extend current players or acquire talent to fill holes, nor trade those expensive guys for any kind of return when they get old and unproductive.

You can be very sure that Duquette is well aware of playoff probabilities and his payroll ceiling.

[DrungoHazewood]

How are you planning to pay for this team?

You just going to go all Marlins and have an off-season sell off?

Maybe in the next CBA the owners can introduce this thing I heard of called the "reserve clause". I'm kind of fuzzy on the details, but I heard it makes paying for a winning team a lot easier and the players have the opportunity to form a longer-lasting bond with the community that chose them.

[HokieOs]

How are you planning to pay for this team?

You just going to go all Marlins and have an off-season sell off?

Hey it worked after 1997... they simply turned around and won it again in 2003. Sure, they've been absolutely awful in almost all of their other series... but they have two World Series rings.

In case it isn't clear, this post is sizzling with sarcasm.

[awannabegeek]

I'm not talking about mortgaging future for a small time player but if you could honestly make a play for a Price, Lester, Sale, Shields, you wouldn't be willing to give up a Harvey or a Bundy? This team has so many question marks going forward (Cruz, Davis, Wieters, Markakis, Chen etc...) and has proven that it can win on the road and beat good teams. You don't take a chance on trading a minor league stud (I can name tons that haven't panned out) for a chance to win it all??? Anyone of those guys would pitch Game One in any playoff series and give us a great shot to win atleast 2 games.

I'm all in. Nobody remembers the okay teams. We all remember 1966, 1970, and 1983.

Ahh the age old argument you should trade prospects because so many do not pan out for proven major leaguers who used to themselves be....prospects.

[mskrulz]

How are you planning to pay for this team?

You just going to go all Marlins and have an off-season sell off?

Well seems to me that we are not going to pay Wieters, Davis will go or will be much cheaper than initially thought, Cruz I don't see re-signing, we won't give Chen huge money, and Markakis will take a lesser contract and likely stay. So where is all this money coming from? I never said that we are hiking payroll, simply trading to try to make a playoff push. If we do trade Bundy, and or Harvey, it seems to me hat we still have cheap lesser heralded prospects in the system.

Are you saying that we can't pay for team long term or can't afford to make a trade this year? Cause if all the Ervin rumors were true we still have some cash laying around.

[Can_of_corn]

Well seems to me that we are not going to pay Wieters, Davis will go or will be much cheaper than initially thought, Cruz I don't see re-signing, we won't give Chen huge money, and Markakis will take a lesser contract and likely stay. So where is all this money coming from? I never said that we are hiking payroll, simply trading to try to make a playoff push. If we do trade Bundy, and or Harvey, it seems to me hat we still have cheap lesser heralded prospects in the system.

Are you saying that we can't pay for team long term or can't afford to make a trade this year? Cause if all the Ervin rumors were true we still have some cash laying around.

You do realize that you need 25 players on the team right? And the only way you get price controlled ones is for them to have little to no service time? If you trade away all those risky prospects then when you need to fill a hole in the team you need to pay free agent prices for them.

[mskrulz]

Ahh the age old argument you should trade prospects because so many do not pan out for proven major leaguers who used to themselves prospects.

Ummm not the age old argument because we wouldn't be trading them to try to put a winning team on the field. We would be trading them to go for a World Series victory. It's a completely different argument. I'm not advocating trading prospects for major leaguers to try to turn a sub par team into a .500 team and therefore stunting a rebuilding effort where you stockpile as many young guys as you can in an effort that some of them become pillars of your future team. I'm advocating doing what it takes for a World Series with a team that has many question marks involving current players and signings and may have a window which is closing.

My only point there was that everyone throwing statistics around but seems to me that we are or should be in "win now" mode.

Oh btw I forgot Hardy you can add him to the question mark column. So now it's Wieters, Davis, Cruz, Chen, Markakis, Hardy etc...).

[Fuzzball22]

You realize that's an unsustainable strategy, and Sale is a special case, right? Sale is essentially unobtainable because he's both excellent and has a long, affordable, team-friendly contract. The White Sox would be idiots to trade him for anything short of extortionist rates. And if you make a habit of trading your highly-regarded prospects for established talent you very quickly exceed Mr. Angelos' budget. The Orioles have to count on one or two of Bundy, Harvey, etc to become productive, inexpensive pitchers for the team to succeed. Unless Angelos sells out to a very rich guy who doesn't care a bit about losing truckloads of cash.[/QUOTE]

What is the point where we start to lose money? Obviously PA is making money with our current payroll. How much is he making? 1mil, 5mil, 20mil? How big of a payroll could we have and PA make money? Does the value of the team go up every year. If the O's were for sale today lets say they would cost 800mil. In 5 years would that cost be 900mil? If so PA is making 20mil per year which could go toward payroll. Granted it is risky getting all crazy with a high payroll. I guess it just comes down to what PA thinks is an acceptable profit.