O's Settle w/ Norris $8.8M

[scOtt]

Where did the article say that ???

Norris stated that he had elbow soreness that plagued him in the final month of the 2013 season (of which he missed a start because of), and that he felt that he would be physically, mentally, and emotionally refreshed for the upcoming 2014 season.

Elbow then. I just remembered some injury that was then fine last year.

[OFFNY]

Bud had knee concerns after 2013? Some lingering injury. That apparently was A-OK last year.

Elbow then. I just remembered some injury that was then fine last year.

Yes.

But the point was that Norris' elbow injury was behind him, not lingering with him as he entered the 2014 season.

[Pickles]

It's an overpay, IMO. But I like Norris' fiery personality, so it's good to have him coming to spring training focused on helping the O's to win.

An overpay in what context though?

Clearly not an overpay in value, or in what he would receive on the open market.

[WEAVERMAN]

Told ya'll it wasn't Norris.

It's Pearce.

Yes, I think it's Pearce also. The gap is 3M.

And what about an extension for Norris, or are he and Chen being allowed to walk? Like pitching grows on trees?

[Babypowder]

Yes, I think it's Pearce also. The gap is 3M.

And what about an extension for Norris, or are he and Chen being allowed to walk? Like pitching grows on trees?

Depends on your definition of grows on trees. Pitching of Norris' quality is relatively easy to replace without spending a lot of money.

[Frobby]

Yes, I think it's Pearce also. The gap is 3M.

And what about an extension for Norris, or are he and Chen being allowed to walk? Like pitching grows on trees?

Are you going to pay Norris and/or Chen when you have Tillman, Gonzalez, Gausman and Jiminez and Bundy needing to be on the ML roster next year?

[mdbdotcom]

Yes, I think it's Pearce also. The gap is 3M.

And what about an extension for Norris, or are he and Chen being allowed to walk? Like pitching grows on trees?

2016 Rotation:

1. Gausman

2. Tillman

3. Bundy

4. Gonzalez

5. Jiminez

In the wings:

- Berry

- Harvey

[Frobby]

Are you kidding? It took us years to even find a guy as good as Rodrigo Lopez. Erik Bedard was good for like 1.5 years. We've had guys like Kris Benson, Kevin Millwood, and Steve Trachsel as our #1's.

Bud Norris would have been the ace on pretty much every losing Orioles team in the last 15 years except that one great Bedard year. And he was our #5 guy last year!

While I don't agree with the statement that guys like Norris can be replaced cheaply, I don't agree with your statement that Norris would have been the ace of our staff most years. Rodrigo Lopez had an ERA+ of 120 in 2002 and 127 in 2004. Sidney Ponson had an ERA+ of 119 in 2003. Bruce Chen had an ERA+ of 113 in 2005. Erik Bedard had a 120 ERA+ in 2006 in addition to his spectacular 146 in 2007 that you mentioned. Jeremy Guthrie had an ERA+ of 125 in 2007, 122 in 2008 and 108 in 2010.

[Babypowder]

Are you kidding? It took us years to even find a guy as good as Rodrigo Lopez. Erik Bedard was good for like 1.5 years. We've had guys like Kris Benson, Kevin Millwood, and Steve Trachsel as our #1's.

Bud Norris would have been the ace on pretty much every losing Orioles team in the last 15 years except that one great Bedard year. And he was our #5 guy last year!

Bedard had more than one good season. But, I did say relatively. If Norris is going to cost significant money I'd say it's time to move on. Bud Norris is a below average starter for his career. Even last year he was close in value to guys like Josh Collmenter, Jordan Lyles, Jason Hammel, Colby Lewis, Jon Niese, Jeremy Guthrie, Wily Peralta, Roenis Elias, Jesse Chavez, J.A. Happ, and Charlie Morton. It doesn't take much to acquire talent like that. Certainly not the amount I suspect someone will ink Norris for in 2016.

[Frobby]

Fair enough, and I totally forgot about Guthrie for whatever reason. But change my statement from "ace" to "#2" and I feel like I'm still standing on solid ground here.

Average to slightly-above-average pitchers are not as easy or cheap to come by as we'd like to think. Every now and then you find a gem like Rodrigo or Gonzalez, but think of how many busted draft picks were going to be the next cheap ace and failed. Can we find a guy like Wei Yin Chen for $5 million again? Sure, we could, but we couldn't seem to do it for 14 damn years when we really needed it.

I'm not even sure what the original point was, but I will gladly pay Norris $9 million to pitch at the end of our rotation because you can't win divisions without a good back end of the rotation.

I have to agree with you that Norris' 2014 season would have made him the no. 2 pitcher in our rotation in many years during our long drought. And I also agree with your main point -- it's not that easy to find pitchers of Norris' quality cheaply. We've been very blessed the last few years to have some good pitchers who were not yet eligible for free agency. Let's hope that Bundy and some of the guys who will be in AAA this year (Davies, Berry, Wright, Wilson etc.) can continue the recent trend.

[weams]

Depends on your definition of grows on trees. Pitching of Norris' quality is relatively easy to replace without spending a lot of money.

I totally disagree with this. Totally.

[weams]

Fair enough, and I totally forgot about Guthrie for whatever reason. But change my statement from "ace" to "#2" and I feel like I'm still standing on solid ground here.

Average to slightly-above-average pitchers are not as easy or cheap to come by as we'd like to think. Every now and then you find a gem like Rodrigo or Gonzalez, but think of how many busted draft picks were going to be the next cheap ace and failed. Can we find a guy like Wei Yin Chen for $5 million again? Sure, we could, but we couldn't seem to do it for 14 damn years when we really needed it.

I'm not even sure what the original point was, but I will gladly pay Norris $9 million to pitch at the end of our rotation because you can't win divisions without a good back end of the rotation.

I think Bud's season last year was much better than any season Guthrie had for us.

[waroriole]

I think Bud's season last year was much better than any season Guthrie had for us.

Guthrie had 3 seasons, with us, better than anything Bud has ever done in his entire career. Last year's career performance was slightly above league average. He ain't difficult to replace.

[MurphDogg]

Guthrie had 3 seasons, with us, better than anything Bud has ever done in his entire career. Last year's career performance was slightly above league average. He ain't difficult to replace.

This isn't Lake Wobegon where every pitcher is above average. It IS difficult to have five above average starters.

[Frobby]

I think Bud's season last year was much better than any season Guthrie had for us.

Other than W-L record, I don't see it. Guthrie went much deeper into games, and had a better ERA relative to the league and park, in the three years I mentioned.