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Schmuck throws in the towel on D-Cab...

markdublya

By markdublya
in Orioles Talk

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Miller192 Hangout Veteran Council

Miller192

Posted
Posted
His fastball lost movement when he tried to slow it down. When he opens the choke and goes full throttle, his two seamer has a ton of movement.

http://mlb.mlb.com/team/player_media.jsp?player_id=425555

Look at his highlight reels from the 2006 season.

The most important pitch is strike one. Any pitcher will tell you that...because if you don't get strike one, you're behind....and if you're behind, you become predictable....and in CaBBrera's case, you start walking everyone.

Everyone thinks that a changeup is the magic cure all because its the one pitch he doesn't throw. It's not that simple.

Can I get a little Vatech here? :D

Moose, I'm with you. If you can't locate your primary pitch, what good is a secondary pitch?

He needs to command the zone with his fastball and then he can get away with a breaking ball or changeup or in the dirt.

To suggest that Cabrera's problems this spring are due solely to him working on a changeup seems a little orang kool-aidish to me. The guy has always struggled with his command.

That being said, if he can become more effective with his walks in tow then I'm all for it.

But I don't think you can discount Cabrera's control problems this spring to the isolated reasoning that it's just his changeup.

There's plenty of guys out there with his talent who can't throw strikes, IMO DCab got his opportunity because of the organization he plays for. I don't think many teams would've stayed with him this long at the major league level.

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66-70-83-?? Major Leaguer

66-70-83-??

Posted
Posted
Moose, I'm with you. If you can't locate your primary pitch, what good is a secondary pitch?

He needs to command the zone with his fastball and then he can get away with a breaking ball or changeup or in the dirt.

To suggest that Cabrera's problems this spring are due solely to him working on a changeup seems a little orang kool-aidish to me. The guy has always struggled with his command.

That being said, if he can become more effective with his walks in tow then I'm all for it.

But I don't think you can discount Cabrera's control problems this spring to the isolated reasoning that it's just his changeup.

There's plenty of guys out there with his talent who can't throw strikes, IMO DCab got his opportunity because of the organization he plays for. I don't think many teams would've stayed with him this long at the major league level.

But, it is all Schmucks fault! :D

He has to be able to command his best pitch (Fastball). That is job1.

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Frobby Hangout Grand Counsel

Frobby

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I have consistently said the same thing ever since signing up with this board: DCAB NEEDS TO BE TRADED TO A LOW PRESSURE NATIONAL LEAGUE team.

Why, because Baltimore is such a high-pressure environment? The players are all losing sleep over how we can stay ahead of Tampa Bay?

The strike zone is the same in either league these days. It makes no difference what league he's in, until he throws more strikes he will struggle.

BTW, I don't read Schmuck's column as "throwing in the towel on DCab." It's not like he's saying we should dump him right now. He's just saying he's no longer confident that DCab is fixable. Well, is anyone, at this point? It's a rebuilding year and we can afford to see whether he's fixable even if the odds are only 25% that he is.

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LookinUp Hangout Grand Counsel

LookinUp

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Thats nice, but how many times have we been teased in spring training by Daniel Cabrera? How many posts/threads have been made that are along the lines of "ZZZZOMG!!! THIS IS IT!! He's turning the corner, he's found it!"

And then how many times has he utterly disappointed us?

Remember the hullabaloo on the board after he dominated the WBC?

What's the old saying? Fool me once, shame on me...Fool me twice...

I'm no VaTech but I got your back Moose. People want to believe he is something that there's very little evidence of. I don't like DCab's chances of being an Oriole by this September.

On a much less scary note...we should all recognize the similar red flags from Loewen. No, I'm not comparing the two. I'm just pointing out that he seems to also have trouble hitting the k zone for the last year +. I happen to think his chances of working things out are much higher than D Cabs.

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Baroquen131 Major Leaguer Cup of Coffee

Baroquen131

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So is that the D-Cab excuse of the week? "It's a rebuilding year!" This time, he'll turn it around. But wait.... when hasn't he pitched in a rebuilding year?

(Yes I understand the "low value could rise argument". I just don't buy the rebuilding or low pressure explanations for his possible improvement.)

It's great that he's working on the off speed pitch(es). It's great that he's a hard worker. I still doubt we'll see any sort of change or consistency from Cabrera. And if the attitude change that Schmuck described is true , (and that's a big if in that we simply have no way of knowing about now... maybe it was just frustration or a misunderstanding?), then not only will he have lost my confidence in him, but he'll lose my sympathy for him too - not that one guy's opinion would or even should matter.

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byrdz Hangout Veteran Council

byrdz

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Who cares, the guy is in the rotation this coming season whether we like it or not and we just have to hope he turns it around. If he doesn't they should trade him for whatever but DCab is the least of our worries.

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hoosiers Hangout Grand Counsel

hoosiers

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Schmuck asks the question: The guy would be lights out if the light ever went on, but how much longer can the Orioles wait for that to happen?

We are a strong candidate for last place.

Isn't DCab exactly the type of high-ceilinig talent we should have shows improvement with 30 starts in 2008?

I would not wait for the light to go on if we were hoping to compete, but I don't understand how we can possibly lose patience with DCab now.

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Frobby Hangout Grand Counsel

Frobby

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So is that the D-Cab excuse of the week? "It's a rebuilding year!" This time, he'll turn it around. But wait.... when hasn't he pitched in a rebuilding year?

We have never been in a rebuilding year since he got here, until now.

And it is not an excuse for DCab. It's just a reason to continue to exercise patience even though by all rights our patience should be exhausted.

My view is he gets 10 starts. That takes him to June 1. I need to see 60 + IP and an ERA under 5.00 to keep him in the rotation at that point. If not, he's off to the bullpen and someone takes his spot. If he can't do it in the pen, he's gone at the end of the year.

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clapdiddy Hangout Grand Counsel

clapdiddy

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We have never been in a rebuilding year since he got here, until now.

And it is not an excuse for DCab. It's just a reason to continue to exercise patience even though by all rights our patience should be exhausted.

My view is he gets 10 starts. That takes him to June 1. I need to see 60 + IP and an ERA under 5.00 to keep him in the rotation at that point. If not, he's off to the bullpen and someone takes his spot. If he can't do it in the pen, he's gone at the end of the year.

I think this would be an excellent approach. He will be commanding a lot of money in arbitration at the end of this season. If he has a really good season, then I'd be fine with trying to extend him. If not, I think the team's patience will finally be gone.

I'm optimistic about Cabrera this season, but I've felt that way before. I'm in the "believe it when I see it" mode with him.

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olehippi Veteran All-Star

olehippi

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Maybe all the impassioned discourse about Cabrera will end if we forget about the hype and hope surrounding him, and just accept him for what he appears to be....ie, a #5 starter who will give you 200+ mediocre innings and on occasion, pitch brilliantly.

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