The "other side" to how AM handled this offseason

[BaltimoreTerp]

He's so thorough that he has spent nearly four months primarily with only one team. I'll say it for the tenth or so time, there comes a time when one realizes they're fishing in a stagnant pond, and moves on elsewhere. IMO that time came months ago. The remarkable implication of all this is there was only one possible destination for an all-star second baseman. Either that shows a lack of imagination / creativity on behalf of the front office or that we Orioles fans are jaded about Roberts' true worth.

How.

Do.

You.

Know.

People keep ignoring or pushing aside this point, but you can't just keep saying these things hoping they're true.

Do you honestly believe that he has just talked to one team?

Hell, all of the talks with Bedard (talking to LA while keeping Seattle involved) should tell us he can do that.

[BaltimoreTerp]

Most trades don't generally happen until later on...Don't usually see much in April or May.

Thanks Vince Vaughn, but don't dodge my question.

[Fan4Life]

Originally Posted by Cubsfan

I don't always agree with Sports Guy, but this time I do. While none of us know for sure who was in the Cubs' offer, the O's probably should have made the deal. The reason to make the Cubs' deal and pay part of the contracts

to dump dead weight is simply addition by subtraction. As you stated, Payton would be gone and Millar could have been dealt. I can't believe that a deal couldn't be worked for Mora going to one of the West Coast teams. Huff should have some value. Even Gibbons might be tradable with the O's paying a big chunk of his contract. As it is now, the O's are still caught in that middle ground between rebuilding and fielding a decent team. Dump the dead weight and play the youngsters to see if they have a future. If nothing else, you load up on the prospects and use them as trade bait later on. Most experts are picking the O's to lose 95+ games, so how much worse can it be playing players like Moore, Cedeno, Murton (?), Patterson (?), Arias, etc..

This is one dimensional thinking... are you any good at chess?

[sector7g]

A lot of talk about getting rid of the clutter here. I don't think there's anyone here that wouldn't agree losing Mora/Millar/Gibbons/Payton etc would be fine and dandy. However, we're never getting anything worthwhile back for them and they're not blocking any O's prospects. Now it's possible they could be blocking prospects we haven't acquried but could have, but thats really too much conjecture to even bring up. My point is it's not that big a deal that these guys are still here at this stage. The only guy I genuinely wish could play everyday is Moore and he's a long shot at being anything other than league average.

One of the best things to happen this off season and something we should all be thankful for is that for the first time in recent memory we haven't ADDED to the clutter. No damaging long term contracts on over rated (purely by us) has-beens. At worst we're one year closer to losing the clutter through their contracts expiring.

[ledzepp8]

Yes I did and that was a thread that was based off of things that we out there at the time.

And, it was more of a thread asking the HO members that if this is the best deal we could get for Bedard, would you do it?

Again, take the context of the thread and what is being reported at the time.

He's taking the context of the thread into consideration. You started a thread/poll asking if you would make the Bedard trade for Jones, Tillman, and Sherrill.

You said as follows:

I would make this trade because I think Jones and Tillman are too talented to pass up and because I think Sherrill will do a good job closing and that he could fetch a top prospect or 2 himself, either at the deadline or after the season.

My problem with it is that we only get one positional guy. We only really added 1 positional guy in the Tejada deal as well.

We need much more in terms of positional talent.

That being said, i don't go to ST with Bedard as an Oriole if these 3 are on the table.

When asked what if AM gets more than those three players through patience:

I would agree he has done his job.

I wouldn't agree that he held out and did good by holding out...We heard that those 3 players were on the table last month and I don't believe for one second that this deal couldn't have been done before Xmas.

So, actually, if anything, AM did a bad job because he held out, lost his gamble and didn't get much else done(although that could change obviously).

When asked about MacPhail getting a fourth player through patience:

That's not what the thread is about.

It is this 3 for 1 deal.

I think you are really reaching in the rest of your post.

End of the day, if this is the deal we get or even if we get a 4th guy like Tui or Chen, i don't think holding out really helped....I think, if anything, it hurt us because of everything else we need to do.

Seems pretty clear to me. You would have jumped right on that deal and said MacPhail was making a huge mistake waiting.

[Sports Guy]

Thanks Vince Vaughn, but don't dodge my question.

I didn't and will you stop with the "you just don't know" crap.

Here is what we know...The WS and Indians have also been tied to Roberts but the Cubs are obviously the most likely suitors.

We haven't heard anything lately on the other teams and we have no idea how much interest they ever really had.

Some of you want the res tof us to sit here and not say anything because we don't know for sure what is going on...That is just stupid.

We can only discuss what we know and what has happened...We can't discuss things that we don't know about.

We can speculate but that's about it...So, this argument of "we don't know", while very true, is totally f'ing meaningless in the context of a message board that is here for us to discuss things.

If you don't like what is being discussed, either ignore it or start your threads about things you want to discuss.

[Sports Guy]

He's taking the context of the thread into consideration. You started a thread/poll asking if you would make the Bedard trade for Jones, Tillman, and Sherrill.

You said as follows:

When asked what if AM gets more than those three players through patience:

When asked about MacPhail getting a fourth player through patience:

Seems pretty clear to me. You would have jumped right on that deal and said MacPhail was making a huge mistake waiting.

And i still say that Butler could have been had at least 3-4 weekls before we did the deal.

I think by holding out, all he added was Mickilio...If it didn't compromise any other deal that we could have made, i have no issue with what AM did.

If it did and he ignored other things, which if you judge by results, he did, then getting Mickilio wasn't worth it IMO.

[Sports Guy]

A lot of talk about getting rid of the clutter here. I don't think there's anyone here that wouldn't agree losing Mora/Millar/Gibbons/Payton etc would be fine and dandy. However, we're never getting anything worthwhile back for them and they're not blocking any O's prospects. Now it's possible they could be blocking prospects we haven't acquried but could have, but thats really too much conjecture to even bring up. My point is it's not that big a deal that these guys are still here at this stage. The only guy I genuinely wish could play everyday is Moore and he's a long shot at being anything other than league average.

One of the best things to happen this off season and something we should all be thankful for is that for the first time in recent memory we haven't ADDED to the clutter. No damaging long term contracts on over rated (purely by us) has-beens. At worst we're one year closer to losing the clutter through their contracts expiring.

No its not!

We could have had other guys...Justin Huber could have been had for next to nothing...I would rather have him right now and Millar off the team than not have Huber at all and see if Millar fetches more in July.

[BaltimoreTerp]

No its not!

We could have had other guys...Justin Huber could have been had for next to nothing...I would rather have him right now and Millar off the team than not have Huber at all and see if Millar fetches more in July.

Who are you trading for Huber, and how (and to whom) are you trading Millar?

[sector7g]

No its not!

We could have had other guys...Justin Huber could have been had for next to nothing...I would rather have him right now and Millar off the team than not have Huber at all and see if Millar fetches more in July.

Well fair point, I agree I would much rather have a young guy with some upside over any of the Millars/Paytons etc. We were never taking Huber, his terrible defense would contradict everything Trembley and AM have preached so far but I do agree with your point that if we could obtain young guys with some upside that fit in with our organisational philosophy it would have been a mistake to keep Millar/Payton/Gibbons or whoever over them. No one would disagree I'm sure but I just don't KNOW that we could have had those guys.

I think it's fair to say that this year was an oppurtunity to give a chance to some guys that other teams couldn't afford to and let them play everyday and see if we get lucky so maybe we've missed the boat in that respect. I just don't think AM is going to be that creative in trades and maybe that will be his long term weakness. I do think he's already taken a huge step in helping us forward though and I'm not disappointed in his first off season.

Infact I do think he's the kind of GM that is going to require our patience to get things right, things aren't going to turn round overnight with him but I doubt he will make too many mistakes we live to regret and I believe he can get things right in the end and that's why I'm backing him. Time will tell.

[Sports Guy]

Who are you trading for Huber, and how (and to whom) are you trading Millar?

Huber was dealt for as PTBNL...Could probably list at least 20 guys that were comparable to what the Pads gave up.

Not sure about Millar...Would have look at everyone...Texas was interested earlier in the offseason.

Perhaps the Yankees as well?

Millar wouldn't be too difficult to move, especially if you were willing to eat a million or so of his salary.

[SrMeowMeow]

I didn't and will you stop with the "you just don't know" crap.

This is so frustrating, how can you dismiss that? The problem I and many others seem to have with your thread is literally that. YOU JUST DON'T KNOW! How can you not see that as a problem? You base your conclusions on your own assumptions and then get offended when people call you out for the complete lack of basis in your arguments.

[Sports Guy]

This is so frustrating, how can you dismiss that? The problem I and many others seem to have with your thread is literally that. YOU JUST DON'T KNOW! How can you not see that as a problem? You base your conclusions on your own assumptions and then get offended when people call you out for the complete lack of basis in your arguments.

NEITHER DO YOU!!!!!!!!!! Its not that i am dismissing it, it is that I don't know, so why waste time talking about what we don't know? This is such a stupid f'ing argument....This is a discussion board.

I am discussing what we do know and what has been reported...So, either add something, attempt to bring some intelligent baseball conversation in it or shut up and move on.

Christ, is this that damn difficult?

[SrMeowMeow]

NEITHER DO YOU!!!!!!!!!! Its not that i am dismissing it, it is that I don't know, so why waste time talking about what we don't know? This is such a stupid f'ing argument....This is a discussion board.

I am discussing what we do know and what has been reported...So, either add something, attempt to bring some intelligent baseball conversation in it or shut up and move on.

Christ, is this that damn difficult?

That's an insane line to take. I guess you don't want to argue the technicalities of how you're talking completely out of your hat, so I will withdraw from this increasingly offensive thread.

[Fan4Life]

This is so frustrating, how can you dismiss that? The problem I and many others seem to have with your thread is literally that. YOU JUST DON'T KNOW! How can you not see that as a problem? You base your conclusions on your own assumptions and then get offended when people call you out for the complete lack of basis in your arguments.

Because it's his thread, based on his opinion, circled around the discussion that he wants... that's how.