Jump to content

Some important positives from this season

Frobby

By Frobby
in Orioles Talk

Recommended Posts

  • Replies 33
  • Created
  • Last Reply
DrungoHazewood Hangout Grand Counsel

DrungoHazewood

Posted
Posted
Agree with this. "Star"...yes..."Superstar"...nope.

You can affix whatever labels you want, but even though he just turned 23 and missed half of last year he's 45th on the all time WAR list through age 23. Right in the same neighborhood as Roberto Alomar, Willie Mays, Barry Bonds, Frankie Frisch, Miguel Cabrera, and Sam Crawford.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
DrungoHazewood Hangout Grand Counsel

DrungoHazewood

Posted
Posted
Thoughts on Coolbaugh?

Disappointed that he didn't tell the players to stop striking out and walk a lot more and hit behind the runners with two strikes and be consistently great in high-leverage situations. Obviously if he'd thought to mention that the team would be a lot better than 5th or 6th in scoring runs.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
weams Hangout Grand Counsel

weams

Posted
Posted
Disappointed that he didn't tell the players to stop striking out and walk a lot more and hit behind the runners with two strikes and be consistently great in high-leverage situations. Obviously if he'd thought to mention that the team would be a lot better than 5th or 6th in scoring runs.

I'm upset. I wanted Crowley back.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Frobby Hangout Grand Counsel

Frobby

Posted
  • Author
Posted
Unfortunately the positives from the minors aren't nearly so good. And this is a team that needs to build from within, or else make some very shrewd free agent pick ups. All of these positives are a solid base, now give me something positive about how you add to these 5 players.

Well, as I said, the minors have developed a pretty solid group of bullpen guys. I mentioned that in my post because I was talking about guys who actually saw time in the majors this year -- Givens, Drake, Wright, Wilson, Rondon and Cabral. I think it is possible that either or both of Wright and Wilson can be a decent back of rotation starter, though I think it is more likely they'll be bullpen guys.

As to players who haven't reached the majors, I think the positive developments were (1) Mancini emerged as a prospect who will reach AAA at the start of next year, (2) Sisco continued to hit well in A+ and seems to be adjusting well to AA, and his catching suddenly seems to be improving (at least statistically; I don't know what scouts would say), and (3) Jomar Reyes had a very good season at Delmarva as an 18-year old. There are some other guys who have had decent seasons but these three guys stand out.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
CaptainRedbeard All-Star

CaptainRedbeard

Posted
Posted
You can affix whatever labels you want, but even though he just turned 23 and missed half of last year he's 45th on the all time WAR list through age 23. Right in the same neighborhood as Roberto Alomar, Willie Mays, Barry Bonds, Frankie Frisch, Miguel Cabrera, and Sam Crawford.

I believe they were talking about Jones, not Manny. Manny is certainly in superstar territory now with this offensive breakout. Jones, however, will never be a superstar with his poor plate discipline limiting him to the 120 wRC+ range, IMO.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
clapdiddy Hangout Grand Counsel

clapdiddy

Posted
Posted
You can affix whatever labels you want, but even though he just turned 23 and missed half of last year he's 45th on the all time WAR list through age 23. Right in the same neighborhood as Roberto Alomar, Willie Mays, Barry Bonds, Frankie Frisch, Miguel Cabrera, and Sam Crawford.

I was referring to Adam Jones, not Manny. I think he's a star...but not a "superstar".

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Three Run Homer Hangout Veteran Council

Three Run Homer

Posted
Posted

The positives mentioned in the original post are what distinguishes this season from 1998, the last time that the O's went from being a division winner to an also-ran. The 1998 team was a veteran team that would almost completely turn over within a couple of seasons. This year's team does have a core of good young talent that could form the nucleus of the next Orioles team to make the playoffs

But the 1998 team does carry a warning message. One of the reasons the Orioles had 14 straight losing seasons is that they never committed to a genuine rebuild until Andy MacPhail traded Eric Bedard for Adam Jones, Chris Tillman et al. They tried to contend with their aging core for a few years by signing guys like Albert Belle, Will Clark and Eric Davis, then they tried to jump start a contending team by signing Miguel Tejada, Rafael Palmeiro and Javy Lopez even though they had very little other talent.

Unless Peter Angelos is willing to bump up payroll significantly next season, I think it would be a mistake to try to contend, given that this team is not good enough and that it's likely to lose more talent this offseason than it can re-sign. I think the team would be better off committing to a real rebuild, which means being willing to trade Jones and Britton if the right offer comes along.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
DrungoHazewood Hangout Grand Counsel

DrungoHazewood

Posted
Posted
Unless Peter Angelos is willing to bump up payroll significantly next season, I think it would be a mistake to try to contend, given that this team is not good enough and that it's likely to lose more talent this offseason than it can re-sign. I think the team would be better off committing to a real rebuild, which means being willing to trade Jones and Britton if the right offer comes along.

I think it will be essentially impossible to bump up payroll next year. Doing nothing means the payroll is something like $65M. So to get back to even they have to spend about $50M in 2016 salary. I'd say a significant bump would be maybe $25M on top of that. The Yanks or Dodgers or Sox rarely sign $75M in annual commitments in one offseason.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Phantom Major Leaguer

Phantom

Posted
Posted
Sorry. You can Fwar all you want. I'm not feeling the super star tag.

The guy hits 30 bombs a year, OPS' .800 and plays a mean center field. And he's cut down his K rate while upping his power this year. Maybe we have different definitions of superstar?

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Can_of_corn Hangout Grand Counsel

Can_of_corn

Posted
Posted
The guy hits 30 bombs a year, OPS' .800 and plays a mean center field. And he's cut down his K rate while upping his power this year. Maybe we have different definitions of superstar?

If Jones is a superstar then what does that make Manny?

He's obviously a tier above Jones as a player.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

Go to topic listing


  • Posts

    • survivedc
      Other teams playoffs game thread

      By survivedc · Posted

      I thought Chisholm missed home too. They didn’t appeal tho I don’t think.
    • eddie83
      Other teams playoffs game thread

      By eddie83 · Posted

      Now run scores and Yanks take lead. 
    • eddie83
      Other teams playoffs game thread

      By eddie83 · Posted

      Inexcusable missed call in NY. Review Cleo at showed Chisholm out at 2nd. They upheld safe call. 
    • now
      Elias: It's on me

      By now · Posted

      Well, good on posters who proved the SSS side of "Guards Ball." I just found it striking in terms of the narrative in that article, which was basically the same as what most around here were complaining the O's lacked: clutch hitting, passing the baton, aggressive running, getting runners in from third, etc. I guess the real bottom line is "whatever works." Which of course varies from case to case. The old Bill James postseason wisdom was that HRs are the ticket, since you face good pitching and get so few hits. So back to you, Elias, keep crunching those numbers...
    • Bemorewins
      Who will pay Burnes $400M this offseason?

      By Bemorewins · Posted

      First, the had a jump in 23’ given how terrible they had been previously, which conditions many fans in the marketplace not to care. They simple weren’t relevant for years. So one very good regular season will not undue years of being bad/irrelevant and treating your customers terribly. Next, I think they missed an opportunity in the offseason by not doing enough by way of big/bold attention grabbing moves. Now I acknowledge that this was most likely due to the ownership flux/transition. I believe they got an attendance/marketplace engagement boost when they changed owners and when they traded for Burnes. However, I believe we would have seen more engagement attendance with say a big Gunnar extension and/or bringing in a big time FA.   IMO this would have created more buzz before the season (say around the time people make season tix decisions - IMO before Christmas is when some people make those bigger purchases). All of this is to say, that it will take time and effort on the organizations part because of how bad of a stain that the Angeloses left. I still have friends and colleagues who refuse to support the Orioles and attend games due to the damage that was done. Rubenstien & co are not going to be able to undo 30 years of awfulness overnight. But IMO it is not enough to simply call it “a new chapter”. They have to make new/different actions to distinguish themselves from who the Orioles were/used to be under the Angelos regime.
    • Emory Eagle
      Other teams playoffs game thread

      By Emory Eagle · Posted

      Just checking in on Gameday, Yankees looking incredibly vulnerable.  Should be the Os out there.  Super lame.  Whichever team wins this series I hope gets knocked out by CLE or DET.
    • Emory Eagle
      ALWC Game 1 Attendance

      By Emory Eagle · Posted

      If the franchise were better, the fan base would be too.  It’s been a rough 40 years.

  • Popular Contributors

×
×
  • Create New...