Camden Depot: Overrated, Expensive, Central And South American Prospects

[weams]

We had a shot at him for 6M but no shot at him when his price came down to 3M?

You don't think these things are as simple in "reality" as it is for you and I to just discuss it do you?

[weams]

Right. I think that our ownership and GM backed off completely. Yes. I do.

I believe that once MLB got involved with age investigation on him that Rene Gayo got several teams scared out of the competition. We were one. And his own team still did not have 3 million.

[weams]

Also, supposedly Gayo leaked the info to MLB that Sano was older specifically to bring the price down. And someone told his agent about that.

[weams]

The Twins signed him for 3M. We didn't. I believe they had access to the same information that we did. The Pirates were supposed to be the team with the inside track. We could have signed him. We didn't. In the end, it is that simple. Of course, the process of the MLB investigation into his age and all that stuff was not simple.

I heard we never bid after the age came into question. And the Pirates lost out with a 2.6 million dollar bid. After he was supposedly going to get six million.

[weams]

The Twins signed him for 3M. We didn't. I believe they had access to the same information that we did. The Pirates were supposed to be the team with the inside track. We could have signed him. We didn't. In the end, it is that simple. Of course, the process of the MLB investigation into his age and all that stuff was not simple.

Major League Baseball's investigation confirmed his identity but left his age as "undetermined."

[weams]

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/story-of-miguel-sano-chronicles-ugly--sleazy-side-of-baseball-s-dominican-talent-pipeline.html

A good article.

Thank you. It is good. MLB never reached a conclusion as to his age.

[weams]

It took a full career for Tejada to be caught.

[Nevermore]

I would still trade my lottery tickets for something of known value.

Basically, when a person buys lottery tickets, they are essentially donating to the government of Maryland. The chances of winning are so miniscule, which is why I don't buy lottery tickets.

EDIT: Whoops, I did it again. Posted from something at the biginning of the thread.

[Stotle]

Another Cuban FA tearing it up down here in Jupiter. Threw today with one of the top HS travel teams. 23yo. Mid-90s fastball. Upper-80s slider. Estimate was close to 200 evaluators in attendance.

[Tryptamine]

Another Cuban FA tearing it up down here in Jupiter. Threw today with one of the top HS travel teams. 23yo. Mid-90s fastball. Upper-80s slider. Estimate was close to 200 evaluators in attendance.

Vladimir Gutierrez or Norge Ruiz? By the way, do you think Armenteros gets more or less than Moncada?

[Stotle]

Vladimir Gutierrez or Norge Ruiz? By the way, do you think Armenteros gets more or less than Moncada?

Yasiel Sierra. I don't know enough about the specific teams heavily involved to wager a guess on Armenteros -- sounds like he'll get paid but not sure what that equates too in the end.

[weams]

Actually, the bones scan was inconclusive, "indicating a range between 16 and 18." But he was cleared to sign and play and he was able to get a visa.

Source: "Finding Baseball's Next Clemente"

[weams]

Yasiel Sierra. I don't know enough about the specific teams heavily involved to wager a guess on Armenteros -- sounds like he'll get paid but not sure what that equates too in the end.

I'd be thrill to have a few more of these players in our system.

[BradyBunch]

You don't want to comingle funds but you are talking about Dariel Alvarez in connection with the international pool. He doesn't have anything to do with that. They spend 980K in 2013/14. Were they still under their pool allotment? If so, then yes, I wanted them to spend up to their pool allotment. Of course, they traded away international slots they knew they weren't going to use as well.

No, I didn't. Comingling funds is a no-no in finance (or in baseball when it comes to draft and international signings). Doesn't mean you can't use some of your funds from international pool and sign a player that's not gonna count against it. Orioles are well within their right to take $800k from their bonus pool and sign Alvarez as Alvarez was an international signing.

Technically the Orioles spent $1.78m in 2013/2014 on international signings. So when we look at bonus pool totals spent we (everybody) has to be careful in calculating what a team spent. You see at $980k, I see $1.78m because that's what the total cost of all the signings from the international market.

Baseball America only listed the higher profile signings. The Orioles had non. The Rays had 6. Are you absolutely positive that the Rays did not sign any other players from the Latin market? Absolutely positive?

No, I didn't say the Rays didn't sign anybody else, that's a figment of your imagination. I said the Rays had to trade a player to the Marlins to lower their pentalty hit and that's exactly what they did. They trade a minor leaguer for $1m in international money from the Marlins that year. But the Rays did get hit. This is the first year the Rays are underpentaly and they haven't signed anybody over $300k this year and won't next year either.

Basically the Rays wanted Rondon and broke their "bank" that year for him and settled with dealing with the pentalty. Something the Rays have never done. So the Rays went all in on Rondon. If he fails, they fail as they are gonna lose two sign periods in talent down in Latin America.

This is just way too simplistic and obviously many teams disagree with you, including the Rays. If I told you you could only draft in the first 5 rounds of the June amateur draft or you could chose from rounds 6-40, which would you choose?

It's not simplistic. It's about the CBA rules. Do you not get that? Rays are limited in what they can do for the next 2 years. So is everybody else that goes over bonus pool. So you as a team handicap yourself. It's only the big teams that regularly do this. Rays did it for a guy they'd be drooling over for 2 years.

Also, if any believe you can get success stories from every player you draft in the 1st 5 rounds..you are crazy.. which is why you draft as many players as you can.. Here is a list of late round picks: Pujols, Nolan Ryan, Sandberg, Smoltz, Piazza, Thome, Mattingly, Lofton, Kent, Saberhagen, Buehrle, Hershiser, Pettitte, Oswalt, Kinsler... just to name a few.

You think those teams who drafted those guys.. thought to themselves.... "Man, I really wished we only picked 5 guys each year". No, they don't. They look at filling minor league teams, developing players and hope that maybe 2 or 3 in a draft will help them down the road. So yes, it's a numbers game and they know it is too.

[BradyBunch]

Again, we just ignore objectivity. He was voted the #13 best prospect in the league. There must be some who are not completely convinced he's a star to be. Jomar Reyes was a good signing. As for breaking the bank for a Cuban being stupid money. Try telling that to the teams who have broke the bank for Puig, Cespedes, Chapman, and the likes. That stupid money was well spent.

I am not ignoring anything. I am pointing out Reyes and others (ones a Redsox international signing) are playing SALLY ball at 18 against guys who are that list who are 20 years and older. You are basically saying ignore age. Sorry, if you are raking in SALLY ball.. at 18 vs a 20 y/os. You are a bit better then what they scouts are saying.

Really? Puig is a nightmare for the Dodgers. Cespedes turned in to trade bait, not once but three times. Chapman's deal wasn't that bad. It was a 6 year deal with it paid over 10 years and bonus payments drawn out over 11 years. Simply put the Reds didn't break the bank for him.

I do admit that the Dominican 16 year old high bonus babies are a crapshoot. BUT, we aren't even going for the 500K-1M guys. And Reyes was almost 2 years ago and was our top signing ever down there. If they ever have a draft down there, would you have the Orioles pass on the 1st and 2nd round, which is essentially what they are doing now? I guess the answer is yes because that's what you're saying.

Doesn't matter if we are or aren't going for them. Any Latin player is a crap shoot. Just as it's a crap shoot for MLB drafted players.

No, because if you have draft down there.. there is a lot more scouting, less "legal" issues, and thugs who collect a % of the players signing bonus. You are also talking about a different system in signing a player. Currently international market is basically a FA free for all. With a draft, you get drafted by a team and you negotiate with that team only. Can't play teams against each other for Boras like bids. That alone will drive down the stupid bonuses given out.