Wieters is staying with the Orioles for 2016

[SteveO]

At the end of the day, we have a catcher in CJ that put a 2.2 WAR. We just essentially signed another one for 15.8 million. Even if MW puts up a 3.0 WAR your getting around 1 win net improvement over what you had for your 15.8 million. There is no good way to spin this. Its gonna be awesome watching CJ sit on the bench while MW catches and some John Q Reject is roaming around the outfield.

I was really hopeful that if spent wisely, the money we would have given a 120 million budget would be enough to field a competitive team. Combine this with the apparent idea that our payroll is gonna be closer to 105 million?.....yea good luck with that DD

[Crazysilver03]

Are we poor now? Wtf that took a big chunk? Get real Angelos

$16M of a $30-40M budget is a large chunk.

Sent from my LG-D850 using Tapatalk

[weams]

If so then that tells me all I need to know about how much this team values winning.

I get we are not a "large market team" but a 105 million....ridiculous in this market with 2 media streams coming in.

I'm assuming you mean the frozen assets of the RSN?

[weams]

At the end of the day, we have a catcher in CJ that put a 2.2 WAR. We just essentially signed another one for 15.8 million. Even if MW puts up a 3.0 WAR your getting around 1 win net improvement over what you had for your 15.8 million. There is no good way to spin this. Its gonna be awesome watching CJ sit on the bench while MW catches and some John Q Reject is roaming around the outfield.

I was really hopeful that if spent wisely, the money we would have given a 120 million budget would be enough to field a competitive team. Combine this with the apparent idea that our payroll is gonna be closer to 105 million?.....yea good luck with that DD

That makes some good sense. I assume that you can still realize a good portion of that value from both Wieters and Joseph throughout the year. I think that assuming they are both 2 WAR plus players independently is probably a bit much. Or that Joseph could be counted on for that level of production.

[SteveO]

That makes some good sense. I assume that you can still realize a good portion of that value from both Wieters and Joseph throughout the year. I think that assuming they are both 2 WAR plus players independently is probably a bit much. Or that Joseph could be counted on for that level of production.

I think you have no choice but to use MW and CJ to the fullest. That could mean using MW at 1B some if the need arises or could mean using him at DH.

Ultimately I think you still have to concentrate on upgrading your pitching staff first and foremost. Now your gonna have to have DD work some magic to bring in a guy or two who can help at DH and 1B with maybe MW adding to that mix periodically when CJ is catching.

Its not impossible but even though 15.8 million is not a ton in todays day and age, it can buy you a player or two with a little more certainty in production than the two guys that say 4-6 million total buys you. So it will hurt, particularly I expect it will hurt depth in other areas.

[Hallas]

I'm sure Joseph is some kind of MLB catcher, but it's far from guaranteed that he's better than Wieters. And not certain that he's going to be an average catcher. His slash line now sits at .224/.284/.376. He's 30 in June. Remember all this talk about how Wieters is a bad bet, 30-year-old catchers tend to decline quickly? Joseph and Wieters are the same age, and if you're falling from a baseline of .224/.284/.376 there's not a long way to fall before you're not a MLB starter. Even if you're a plus defender.

Plus, he's not used to heavy workloads. His MLB line in two Septembers is 11-for-95. I guess that could just be bad luck.

Yeah, that's exactly my point. Without Wieters, we're counting on Caleb being a serviceable starting catcher. I'm sure he's a MLB catcher. It's very possible he's an MLB starting catcher. It's definitely not a certainty.

[Hallas]

I wonder if there's language in a qualifying offer that lets us defer some of it to avoid the financial hit this year. That would make his 2016 salary a bit more palatable.

[Can_of_corn]

I wonder if there's language in a qualifying offer that lets us defer some of it to avoid the financial hit this year. That would make his 2016 salary a bit more palatable.

I'm sure you could but why would Wieters/Boras agree to it?

[weams]

I'm sure you could but why would Wieters/Boras agree to it?

Like I had mentioned when someone asked about a buyout. Why would they? They are entitled to the full 16 now no matter what. It's part of what the deal is.

[DrungoHazewood]

That makes some good sense. I assume that you can still realize a good portion of that value from both Wieters and Joseph throughout the year. I think that assuming they are both 2 WAR plus players independently is probably a bit much. Or that Joseph could be counted on for that level of production.

It's plausible Joseph's performance would hold up over 120 or 130 games. But he never has, and he's faded badly in September. I think it's likely they would have played a defense-first guy for 50-60 games. Maybe Salty. Maybe some lesser guy. Probably not Clevenger.

[MrOrange82]

It's plausible Joseph's performance would hold up over 120 or 130 games. But he never has, and he's faded badly in September. I think it's likely they would have played a defense-first guy for 50-60 games. Maybe Salty. Maybe some lesser guy. Probably not Clevenger.

Joseph made $515,000 last year. Clevenger was paid at an equivalent rate. What are the odds that Wieters will be worth around 15 times their combined production in 2016? Or 7.5 times? 4? Double?

Paying Wieters that much is a horrendous waste of money. No other way to describe it.

[Can_of_corn]

Joseph made $515,000 last year. Clevenger was paid at an equivalent rate. What are the odds that Wieters will be worth around 15 times their combined production in 2016? Or 7.5 times? 4? Double?

Paying Wieters that much is a horrendous waste of money. No other way to describe it.

So the entire team should be made up of 500K guys? Jones is making 16M next year, no way he is 32 times better then some kid in AAA right?

[MrOrange82]

So the entire team should be made up of 500K guys? Jones is making 16M next year, no way he is 32 times better then some kid in AAA right?

If you're talking about a probable difference of 1.0-ish WAR, the question is relevant, especially since Wieters clearly doesn't factor into the team's long term plans.

Wieters and Jones, apples and oranges on this team.

Of course, Jones might actually be 32 times better than the overwhelming majority of the O's MiL OFers, regardless...

[Can_of_corn]

If you're talking about a probable difference of 1.0-ish WAR, the question is relevant, especially since Wieters clearly doesn't factor into the team's long term plans.

Wieters and Jones, apples and oranges on this team.

Of course, Jones might actually be 32 times better than the overwhelming majority of the O's MiL OFers, regardless...

The difference between Matt and Caleb's backup might very well be significantly greater then 1 Win.

[Bradysburns]

So the entire team should be made up of 500K guys? Jones is making 16M next year, no way he is 32 times better then some kid in AAA right?

True, but if we had a guy on the roster putting up similar numbers and costing $500K instead of 16M... and they were the same age... and you had to pick one to keep on the roster next year, you'd probably go with the guy who costs $500K. At least I would.

This was a pretty enormous miscalculation, I would imagine. But I don't blame them for rolling the dice. They just lost.

I would park Wieters at first base. I think it would extend his career and probably bring up his offensive numbers. Put CJ behind the dish for 2/3 of the games, spelled by a veteran. If Wieters could hit .280 with 25 homers, and an OPS somewhere around .800... switch hitting at first... that would be pretty much worth the money. Also, you have to like his veteran presence and knowledge, which could benefit our whole team. You need good veterans around...