Any Interest in a Reunion with Markakis?

[Number5]

How old were they compared to Markakis?

I don't think that the argument that the analogies aren't exact fits is a very strong one. The point is that it doesn't seem wise to overpay to bring back a former good player with obviously diminished skills at high cost. History has shown that employing that team-building strategy has not worked out well. The bottom line is that Markakis' contract is not one that wold appear likely to give a plus value to a team, and the amount that it would be necessary for Atlanta to pay down to make the contract a reasonable pay for the Orioles is almost surely a deal-breaker for the Braves. It is hard for me to see talks between these two teams along these lines gaining any traction. Stranger things have happened, though.

[Frobby]

I don't think that the argument that the analogies aren't exact fits is a very strong one. The point is that it doesn't seem wise to overpay to bring back a former good player with obviously diminished skills at high cost. History has shown that employing that team-building strategy has not worked out well. The bottom line is that Markakis' contract is not one that wold appear likely to give a plus value to a team, and the amount that it would be necessary for Atlanta to pay down to make the contract a reasonable pay for the Orioles is almost surely a deal-breaker for the Braves. It is hard for me to see talks between these two teams along these lines gaining any traction. Stranger things have happened, though.

I don't think Nick is really being overpaid (by free agent standards), now that the neck surgery risk is largely removed from the equation. If a team could have him essentially for free, i.e. a C+ prospect for Nick, straight up with no salary relief, I think that would be a fair deal for some team. It's just a matter of whether the Orioles would have better uses for that money considering their budget and other needs.

[eddie83]

I just don't get why the needs of the team take a backseat to WAR. Lough had a 1.6 rWAR in 2014. Last year 0.1. I think he was the same player. A backup OF with a good glove that can't hit except for a 3 month SSS in 2014. His talent didn't change. Markakis gets on base which is a need for this offense. His glove doesn't harm a team either. Now if we can find someone better so be it but his skill set is more important than what his WAR was. This team has plenty of power and coming back to the AL East and the different parks would bump his HR power up a little anyway.

[Can_of_corn]

I just don't get why the needs of the team take a backseat to WAR. Lough had a 1.6 rWAR in 2014. Last year 0.1. I think he was the same player. A backup OF with a good glove that can't hit except for a 3 month SSS in 2014. His talent didn't change. Markakis gets on base which is a need for this offense. His glove doesn't harm a team either. Now if we can find someone better so be it but his skill set is more important than what his WAR was. This team has plenty of power and coming back to the AL East and the different parks would bump his HR power up a little anyway.

Yea, those extra baserunners he allows over someone like Lough never score.

[Reboulet'sStache]

I just don't see somebody thinks Markakis will be "solid" over the next few years. You cannot argue he will be a 2 WAR player each year over the life of the contract. You can believe that, but you can't argue it for the sake of the discussion. You have to assume some level of decline.

[DrungoHazewood]

I just don't get why the needs of the team take a backseat to WAR.

You don't understand why we should take the quality of a player's production into account?

[Frobby]

I just don't see somebody thinks Markakis will be "solid" over the next few years. You cannot argue he will be a 2 WAR player each year over the life of the contract. You can believe that' date=' but you can't argue it for the sake of the discussion. You have to assume some level of decline.[/quote']

I'm not sure I follow you. What level of decline to I "have to assume" in order to get your permission to have the argument? If I had to give a range, I'd expect Nick to be worth 3-7 WAR over the next three years, with 4.5-5.0 being my most likely guess. Am I allowed to have that opinion?

[Dipper9]

These kind of comments annoy me. I was perfectly fine with letting Markakis go, and I'm not particularly keen (wearing my pseudo-GM hat rather than my fan hat) in bringing him back, considering our payroll situation and other needs that we have. But Nick does not deserve to be lumped in with Huff or Millar. We're talking about a guy who is as tough and durable as they come, who plays hurt, and who has been pretty consistent from one year to the next. He's already been worth significantly more in his career than Huff or Millar, and has a pretty good chance of being worth more than the two of them combined before he finishes his career.

And don't forget his numbers last season would have led the Orioles in OBP and batting average, on a team that desperately needed that. But alas, I'm just a fan.

I don't particularly want him back, but based on the crap that we replaced him with last year, I'd take Nick back over that mess any day of the week.

[SteveO]

I'm not sure I follow you. What level of decline to I "have to assume" in order to get your permission to have the argument? If I had to give a range, I'd expect Nick to be worth 3-7 WAR over the next three years, with 4.5-5.0 being my most likely guess. Am I allowed to have that opinion?

That is a broad and fair range IMO. I thought Nick had a pretty solid season considering he had no time to really prep for it. 2.0 WAR is not exactly chump change IMO. Just because it does not have have big power numbers attached to it, does not in some way make it illegitimate as some seem to portray it as. Nick was a productive player last year, he fills a role and does it pretty well still. I agreed with not giving him 4 years but this portrayal of him as not worth the AAV he got seems to be disputed by the numbers and results. Its the length that was always the issue for me.

[DrungoHazewood]

I don't particularly want him back, but based on the crap that we replaced him with last year, I'd take Nick back over that mess any day of the week.

I don't think we should get sucked into that kind of false choice, either signing a guy to an ill-advised long term deal or getting stuck with crap players. The year before the Orioles avoided signing anyone to a long-term deal and got a great performance out of Cruz. In '12 they found all kinds of talent hiding under rocks. Even with Nick they would likely have finished out of the playoffs last year, he was barely an average regular. I'd rather go year-to-year and take my chances rather than sign up for a longer contract that has a high likelihood of ending poorly.

[Dipper9]

I don't think we should get sucked into that kind of false choice, either signing a guy to an ill-advised long term deal or getting stuck with crap players. The year before the Orioles avoided signing anyone to a long-term deal and got a great performance out of Cruz. In '12 they found all kinds of talent hiding under rocks. Even with Nick they would likely have finished out of the playoffs last year, he was barely an average regular. I'd rather go year-to-year and take my chances rather than sign up for a longer contract that has a high likelihood of ending poorly.

Fair enough.

I would rather the Orioles use Davis' supposed money they have in Peter's Piggy Bank and get solid, known commodities than waste money signing "chance players." I do agree that the Nick boat has sailed, but with Buck, you just never know. Plus then Jones will be happy again!

[DrungoHazewood]

2.0 WAR is not exactly chump change IMO.

Yes and no. It's not trivial to just plug in a body and get 2.0 wins (or the 1.6 he was worth by Fangraphs valuations). But Markakis was 67th in fWAR among 2015 outfielders. And that's 67th even after playing 156 games and getting 686 PAs. On that list he's between Hunter Pence, who got 1.6 wins in 52 games, and Aaron Hicks who complied 1.5 in 97.

[eddie83]

Yea, those extra baserunners he allows over someone like Lough never score.

Then why isn't he an everyday player? Why did 30 teams pass on him when anybody could of picked him up? All teams don't think his glove is worth it.

[Can_of_corn]

Then why isn't he an everyday player? Why did 30 teams pass on him when anybody could of picked him up? All teams don't think his glove is worth it.

I was commenting on how Nick's defense does hurt the team he is playing for.

He doesn't get to balls that faster outfielders get to. That hurts his team.

[Redskins Rick]

my apologies, if this has been mentioned.

But, has anybody thought about Nick?

Would Nick consider coming back here?

He was pretty bummed about not being wanted here.