Do you consider Matt Wieters to be a bust?

[Enjoy Terror]

I was trying to determine what I would consider the threshold for a first rounder in terms of being a "bust". You all know the Orioles have had relatively few first round picks pan out to expectations. Since 2000, the Orioles have three first rounders reach 10 bWAR: Manny, Markakis, and Matt Wieters. Only five other players have a positive bWAR: Gausman, Bundy, Matusz, Loewen, and Mike Fontenot. Matt Wieters was destined to be Mauer with Power^TM, but never played up to the superstar moniker, got injured a fair bit, and ultimately (IMO) got screwed in the court of public opinion by the compensation system this year and chose a contract larger than anyone thinks he can live up to. In spite of what people say about him, he's outperformed almost other first rounders we've drafted this century... just not to the level we hyped him to be.

On that note, Matusz never lived up to being the #1 lefty we hoped... I would think we'd mostly consider him to be a bust, but he's also been worthy of a spot on the Orioles starting squad every year since we drafted him. He just isn't playing the position we had hoped. If he's a bust, where can we draw the line?

[bluedog]

Yes. Wieters has performed at a fraction of the level I had hoped when he came up. I think that Caleb Joseph is quite possibly a better player at this point in his career at a tiny fraction of Wieter's cost.

[Can_of_corn]

Hobgood is a bust.

Matusz is fairly typical.

Wieters is a victim of hype.

[O-The-Memories]

He's not a bust, but if you would have told me this is what we would get, I would be lying if I said I wasn't disappointed. Wieters is an above average catcher with injury concerns to me. Every team in MLB would like to have him if salary wasn't an issue, but I'm not his biggest fan. I honestly thought he would be a possible HOF level player, but that's my fault for buying into the hype.

[Can_of_corn]

He's not a bust, but if you would have told me this is what we would get, I would be lying if I said I wasn't disappointed. Weiters is an above average catcher with injury concerns to me. Every team in MLB would like to have him if salary wasn't an issue, but I'm not his biggest fan. I honestly thought he would be a possible HOF level player, but that's my fault for buying into the hype.

If you were told that when he was drafted or after his first year in pro ball?

[O-The-Memories]

If you were told that when he was drafted or after his first year in pro ball?

After his first season I already suspected something was amiss. He's always had a long swing, and he still seems to make a lot of weak contact. The problem is that the catcher position is weak relative to others, so I think hes still clearly above average to Top 10 if he's healthy. Did you see the Sox catcher yesterday? That's what we might see if we didn't have Wieters. I don't miss Gil, Fasano, and the like at all.

[Can_of_corn]

After his first season I already suspected something was amiss. He's always had a long swing, and he still seems to make a lot of weak contact. The problem is that the catcher position is weak relative to others, so I think hes still clearly above average to Top 10 if he's healthy. Did you see the Sox catcher yesterday? That's what we might see if we didn't have Wieters. I don't miss Gil, Fasano, and the like at all.

After his first year in pro ball, when he tore up the minors, that is when you suspected something was amiss?

It seems odd to me that you are that disappointed in him when his draft day comp was Varitek.

[CaptainRedbeard]

Disappointment. Not a bust. To me, bust = doesn't make the majors.

[ledzepp8]

Wieters has been a bust in the sense that he didn't become another Joe Mauer. He's been a good and productive catcher.

Matusz is the clear bust.

[Can_of_corn]

Wieters has been a bust in the sense that he didn't become another Joe Mauer. He's been a good and productive catcher.

Matusz is the clear bust.

No, that's Hobgood.

Hobgood is what a top 5 draft bust looks like.

Not someone that might end up with a 10 year career.

[MDtransplant757]

No, that's Hobgood.

Hobgood is what a top 5 draft bust looks like.

Not someone that might end up with a 10 year career.

Hobgood is a bust. Weiters is not, he's very good at catching and was and somewhat still is a very good hitter.

[ledzepp8]

No, that's Hobgood.

Hobgood is what a top 5 draft bust looks like.

Not someone that might end up with a 10 year career.

They can both be busts can't they? Matusz might have a lengthy career but he's really never done anything. He's barely a LOOGY. I get what you're saying though.

Matusz just disappoints me more than most other players.

[Can_of_corn]

They can both be busts can't they? Matusz might have a lengthy career but he's really never done anything. He's barely a LOOGY. I get what you're saying though.

Matusz just disappoints me more than most other players.

I agree he's a disappointment.

Not like you are wrong, bust might mean something different to you than it does to me.

For me bust level for a top 5 pick is never sticking on a ML roster.

[O-The-Memories]

After his first year in pro ball, when he tore up the minors, that is when you suspected something was amiss?

It seems odd to me that you are that disappointed in him when his draft day comp was Varitek.

I think I made it pretty clear that he's still a good catcher. I bought tickets to his first game at Camden Yards, and yes, I think many Orioles fans think he is a disappointment relative to my expectations

I was expecting an .850 OPS or so from him. His defense was very good for a few years, and I still think it's good. Varitek might end up being the better catcher between the two, and that is below my expectations. I never called him a bust, or anything near that.

[25 Nuggets]

Yes. Wieters has performed at a fraction of the level I had hoped when he came up. I think that Caleb Joseph is quite possibly a better player at this point in his career at a tiny fraction of Wieter's cost.

I honestly don't understand how you, or anyone else can think of Wieters as a bust. For those that do, I have this suggestion -- don't worry about your team drafting in the first round. Root for the Orioles to trade their first round pick every year for an immediate asset.

If you don't get what I'm driving at, go and look at the first round of the MLB draft. Go back as far as you like. I'll use his draft, 2007 as an example.

Matt Wieters at this point in his career is as good as the 8th best player from the 2007 draft class.

Clearly not as good as (7): Madisoin Bumgarner, Josh Donaldson, Jason Heyward, David Price, Chris Sale, Giancarlo Stanton, Jordan Zimmerman

About as good as (9): Jake Arrieta, Brandon Belt, Todd Frazier, Freddie Freeman, Matt Harvey, Craig Kimbrel, Corey Kluber, Jonathan Lucroy, Anthony Rizzo

Clearly better than (18): Darwin Barney, Andrew Cashner, Brett Cecil, Zach Cosart, Lucas Duda, Danny Duffy, Yasmani Grandal, Greg Holland, Tommy Hunter, D.J. LeMahieu, Matt Moore, Mitch Moreland, Mike Moustakas, Derek Norris, Rick Porcello, Jarrod Parker, Ben Revere, Tony Watson

...everyone else isn't even close in value. That is from the entire draft by the way. Fifty rounds. 1,453 picks. Wieters is gone after this year, and many of those listed have already changed teams.

The Orioles hit on the draft pick. They didn't miss. This is nowhere close to the definition of a bust.