Stan 'The Fan' Charles: Dylan Bundy-Buck Showalter Relationship Is Something Worth Watching

[jabba72]

I think 6-7 days off between outings is perfect for Bundy this year. I mentioned 50 pitches per outing in another thread. I dont think buck or Duquette are relying on Bundy this year,. Hopefully there is a way to build up his endurance for next season, because the quality of his pitches is still there.

[Babypowder]

Back when men were still men, yes. I agree, push the kid.

:rolleyestf:

[waroriole]

We send 18 year olds into combat. Dude is 23, come on now.

Gotta love folks who are tough guys with other people's livelihoods.

[Moose Milligan]

Pitchers get babied more, seems like the rate for having TJ surgery has gone up.

I'm not going to read the article as I don't really care, honestly. Bundy just needs time at the ML level. Everything else will sort itself out.

He's at a point where either he's going to make it or he's not. That arm is going to hold together or it's not.

[Can_of_corn]

Pitchers get babied more, seems like the rate for having TJ surgery has gone up.

I'm not going to read the article as I don't really care, honestly. Bundy just needs time at the ML level. Everything else will sort itself out.

He's at a point where either he's going to make it or he's not. That arm is going to hold together or it's not.

Major league pitchers get babied more.

The amount of wear they have when they are drafted might very well be at its peak.

[Moose Milligan]

Major league pitchers get babied more.

The amount of wear they have when they are drafted might very well be at its peak.

No, I'm pretty sure there's limits on how many innings a kid can go in high school, college and youth league ball. Can't pitch back to back days or something.

I'd be more concerned about teaching kids at too young an age to throw curveballs, split fingers and other pitches that provide more wear on the elbow. Throwing a baseball is bad enough, but teaching some kid who's undersized and underaged on how to drop a curve isn't necessary. Everyone rants and raves about pitch counts, no one talks about the types of pitches a kid in high school is throwing and how often they throw it. I wasn't allowed to throw a curve until I was 13 and even after I didn't do it often. First of all, I didn't really need it, second I was always worried about what it'd do to my elbow.

No, pitchers are getting babied more and more at all levels. Especially if they're a young prospect and have ML draft written all over them, mommy and daddy are riding that to the bank. Over protective sports parents are going to make sure little Johnny doesn't throw an extra inning because they might be drafted. Or else the coach is getting an earful.

[Can_of_corn]

No, I'm pretty sure there's limits on how many innings a kid can go in high school, college and youth league ball. Can't pitch back to back days or something.

I'd be more concerned about teaching kids at too young an age to throw curveballs, split fingers and other pitches that provide more wear on the elbow. Throwing a baseball is bad enough, but teaching some kid who's undersized and underaged on how to drop a curve isn't necessary. Everyone rants and raves about pitch counts, no one talks about the types of pitches a kid in high school is throwing and how often they throw it. I wasn't allowed to throw a curve until I was 13 and even after I didn't do it often. First of all, I didn't really need it, second I was always worried about what it'd do to my elbow.

No, pitchers are getting babied more and more at all levels. Especially if they're a young prospect and have ML draft written all over them, mommy and daddy are riding that to the bank. Over protective sports parents are going to make sure little Johnny doesn't throw an extra inning because they might be drafted. Or else the coach is getting an earful.

It depends on the league and the state and other stuff.

Good bit of information about it in The Arm.

Look at it this way, twenty-five years ago the top HS pitcher in the state hardly had to ramp it up to get outs and no one had radar guns.

Now these kids play year round on travel teams against stacked lineups with scouts all over the place.

Bundy, for instance, was abused as a HS pitcher with pitch counts you will never again see in the majors.

[Moose Milligan]

It depends on the league and the state and other stuff.

Good bit of information about it in The Arm.

Look at it this way, twenty-five years ago the top HS pitcher in the state hardly had to ramp it up to get outs and no one had radar guns.

Now these kids play year round on travel teams against stacked lineups with scouts all over the place.

Bundy, for instance, was abused as a HS pitcher with pitch counts you will never again see in the majors.

I see where you're coming from but he's no more abused than a guy like Dwight Gooden who already had a ton of pitches thrown by the time he came up to the big leagues, too. And then continued to throw high stress innings in the majors, high inning counts and pitch counts as a rookie, then leading the league in complete games at age 20 in his second season. BBR.com doesn't have his pitch counts for those games, but they do for 1988. 8 starts over 120 pitches, two of those went over 130.

Mussina's first full year in the majors came at 23 after God knows how many innings and pitches he threw at Stanford. Still went 240 innings. Two games over 130 pitches, one game at 142 pitches.

So I don't necessarily buy the notion of kids playing year round on travel teams and being young and abused when guys like Gooden and Mussina threw a lot of pitches really early on and achieved pitch counts that are totally unheard of today. If Gausman ever sniffed 140 pitches in one start, the entire OH wouldn't let Buck out of the parking lot without trying to lynch him.

Maybe Gooden and Mussina didn't play on year round travel teams or anything but I'm pretty sure they played in an era where there weren't any rules for kids in place. So it's a tradeoff, IMO.

[scOtt]

This is very much what my thread the other day was about.

There's no right or wrong answer.

But I'm one who feels like 120 innings for Bundy over the course of 6 months shouldn't ruin him.

And if it does, the problem is deeper.

I was thinking more like 100 innings but yeah, stretch him out every chance you can. As long as he's healthy and effective ride him like a horse. Give him a real chance to start next year.

[Can_of_corn]

To be honest, I think that a lot of the problem is the stress increased velocity puts on the arm.

[Frobby]

To be honest, I think that a lot of the problem is the stress increased velocity puts on the arm.

I agree. For every action there is an equal and opposite reaction, so the harder you throw, the more stress there is on the arm.