Britton explains why Arrieta flourished in Chicago

[Can_of_corn]

While determining who's to blame has some importance, I think it matters more that the O's learn from the situation so it doesn't happen again.

How would you avoid another Jake scenario?

Avoid drafting headstrong pitchers?

Acquiescing when pitchers refuse to accept changes?

Having a second set of rules where more talented pitchers get preferential treatment?

[SpinJr]

How would you avoid another Jake scenario?

Avoid drafting headstrong pitchers?

Acquiescing when pitchers refuse to accept changes?

Having a second set of rules where more talented pitchers get preferential treatment?

Yes or No question Can. Do you think our development system has been a success over the last 20 years in the context of pitching?

[Ruzious]

How would you avoid another Jake scenario?

Avoid drafting headstrong pitchers?

Acquiescing when pitchers refuse to accept changes?

Having a second set of rules where more talented pitchers get preferential treatment?

Treat each player like an individual rather that something off an assembly line. Find out what makes each player tick. Don't coach like robots.

[Can_of_corn]

Yes or No question Can. Do you think our development system has been a success over the last 20 years in the context of pitching?

You mean development systems right?

You seem to be implying that the O's have had one overriding system in place over that time period.

I will say that other teams certainly have had far superior results and that as a whole Oriole pitchers have, imo, under-performed.

[Can_of_corn]

Treat each player like an individual rather that something off an assembly line. Find out what makes each player tick. Don't coach like robots.

If you want to institute changes and the player is resistant what do you do?

[Ruzious]

Jake had many chances in Baltimore. He tanked. Sorry but I don't believe it all

falls on a PC not letting him throw a cutter. Jake needed a change of scenery.

It's very easy place all the blame on someone else. I will sure be glad when all

this news about Jake fades away. I guess it never will as long as Jake has

success with the Cubs. IMO

You can use this excuse when a player makes a jump from so-so to good when he joins another team. You can't when a player goes from not good enough to stay in the majors to the BEST PITCHER ON THE PLANET. We bleeped up.

[SpinJr]

You mean development systems right?

You seem to be implying that the O's have had one overriding system in place over that time period.

I will say that other teams certainly have had far superior results and that as a whole Oriole pitchers have, imo, under-performed.

Yes, sorry I meant to type developmental system. I understand the argument that we have not had the same people running that system over the whole 20 year period. I would also assume (tell me If I'm off here) that you believe we have the right people now running that system?

If yes, I'll say I can't in good faith get on board with that belief until I see results. We've shone ourselves to be one of the worst and until I start seeing a longer trend of success I'm going to stand on we still have problems. Now if KG, Bundy and Harvey all make it as long term starters than my mind can be changed rather quickly.

(let me also say I'm speaking specifically about starting pitching success here)

[Can_of_corn]

Yes, sorry I meant to type developmental system. I understand the argument that we have not had the same people running that system over the whole 20 year period. I would also assume (tell me If I'm off here) that you believe we have the right people now running that system?

If yes, I'll say I can't in good faith get on board with that belief until I see results. We've shone ourselves to be one of the worst and until I start seeing a longer trend of success I'm going to stand on we still have problems. Now if KG, Bundy and Harvey all make it as long term starters than my mind can be changed rather quickly.

Honestly? I got no clue. The Bundy and Harvey injuries kinda killed the data set.

I'm as worried about Buck peccadilloes as I am anything else.

[Ruzious]

If you want to institute changes and the player is resistant what do you do?

Don't have rules that can't be bent.

In other words, don't be a moron and stop looking for excuses. Developing your players is more important than sticking with rules that arent effective.

It's like a coach who insists on staying with his system and won't adjust it when his players could be used much more successfully if he'd simply adjust his system.

[Can_of_corn]

Don't have rules that can't be bent.

In other words, don't be a moron and stop looking for excuses. Developing your players is more important than sticking with rules that arent effective.

It's like a coach who insists on staying with his system and won't adjust it when his players could be used much more successfully if he'd simply adjust his system.

So you would let pitchers just refuse to follow any guidance from the coaches?

Is that what you are saying?

[Ruzious]

So you would let pitchers just refuse to follow any guidance from the coaches?

Is that what you are saying?

No, not even close. None of your questions have been in the neighborhood. Use flexibility dependent on the player.

[Can_of_corn]

No, not even close. None of your questions have been in the neighborhood. Use flexibility dependent on the player.

If you say, Jake I want you to do X and Y and Jake says "I don't think that will work for me I would rather do T and U." What do you say?

While I don't believe in turning a starting rotation into a Kraftwork tribute band you have to work under the assumption that the development people thought the changes they were trying to implement would improve Jake's performance.

[DrungoHazewood]

If you say, Jake I want you to do X and Y and Jake says "I don't think that will work for me I would rather do T and U." What do you say?

While I don't believe in turning a starting rotation into a Kraftwork tribute band you have to work under the assumption that the development people thought the changes they were trying to implement would improve Jake's performance.

Rigorously structured flexibility. A consistent top-to-bottom organizational philosophy on pitching that relies on simple, straightforward guidance to do whatever works for you. A New Oriole Way.

[TAMC]

Rigorously structured flexibility. A consistent top-to-bottom organizational philosophy on pitching that relies on simple, straightforward guidance to do whatever works for you. A New Oriole Way.

One way to achieve that is to change from a rule-oriented system to a goal-oriented system. You identify what results you want a person to demonstrate and judge success or failure by whether those results are demonstrated. That does not say that a person shouldn't get advice and assistance in achieving the stated goals, but the result should be the bottom line, not following a set of rules. (Obviously not talking about laws, morals, etc. here, but job performance.)

[Camden_yardbird]

Rigorously structured flexibility. A consistent top-to-bottom organizational philosophy on pitching that relies on simple, straightforward guidance to do whatever works for you. A New Oriole Way.

I 5hink what we saw with those pitchers is confluence of this, actually having an organizational philosophy, and what was there which was not much in the way of an overarching philosophy. I think having one philosophy is the best way to go as its makes reptile player development easier and players are more fungible (see cardinals hitters, Tampa pitchers). It also makes it easier to identify players you can acquire and turn around or maybe get a little more from (see the Orioles pursuit of Preston Tucker who is displaying some skills the Orioles have valued in hitters).

Unfortunately those pitchers were just the casualty of that paradigm shift. And yet despite that Tillman, Britton and Matusz have become productive major leaguers for the orioles.