Would you be willing to trade Schoop and Givens for a good starting pitcher?

[canonfaz]

Atlanta might be more interested in Bundy, Sisco, Wright, for Teheran.

Agreed. If you are going for it, then this is the type of trade you can make. It could hurt you in the future (i.e. Arrieta), but it doesn't hurt this years team that may have a chance to win it all.

[LookitsPuck]

I have severe doubts that the O's extend Manny.

So by 2018, we'll be without our starting SS (Manny) and 2B (Schoop). We'll have no real 3B option. No CF. Missing COF.

So, no, I think it'd be downright idiotic to further gut what little talent would remain come 2018 and beyond.

[LookitsPuck]

Atlanta might be more interested in Bundy, Sisco, Wright, for Teheran.

Two potential starters with bullpen as fallback. 5-6 years of service time for all 3.

O's lose little value from current team.

I'm not entirely against that. Teheran would be effectively signed through 2020. He's been effective, durable. Young.

[sportsfan8703]

I say roll with what we have until the deadline. Here are a few that I could come up with and what I think they would cost,

1. Julio Teheran-Atlanta

Bundy, Sisco, O.Peralta

2. Sonny Gray-Athletics

Bundy, Schoop, Hess

or

Bundy, Schoop, Lee, Ubaldo for Gray, Lowrie, Crisp

3. Jose Fernandez-Marlins

Bundy, Sisco, Peralta, Lee

4. Matt Harvey-Mets

Trumbo

Obviously the price is steep. I don't see a team that's out of it wanting to trade for a reliever like Givens, and I don't see a team that's in it wanting to trade a TOR SP. For Givens it would have to be a three team deal or wait till the offseason. I'll leave the three team trade scenarios to others.

[ChuckS]

I've advocating trading Givens (as part of a package) and even Britton in the past for a legitimate SP.

Trade from an area of strength to address an area of weakness. Makes sense.

Schoop is too valuable. He is one of the few cost controlled position players on the team and we don't have a viable replacement for him.

[Ruzious]

Teheran's a legit #2 starter that could become a number 1. Problem is - You make a move like that with our system that has nobody to replace Schoop... what's the point? Unless you have a plan to get a good 2nd baseman, I'd pass. This is a new baseball era where you don't need top of the rotation starting pitchers to win a WS. You need multiple players like Givens - as relievers like him stay underpaid.

[DrungoHazewood]

Losing Schoop and Givens wouldn't weaken the team as much as a true TOR would strengthen it.

So you think you'd get a consistent 200+ inning, 2.50 ERA guy for Schoop and Givens? With how many years left on their contract? You're trading, what, about eight or nine years of Schoop and Givens?

[weams]

As I try to think about who we could trade to get a good starting pitcher (not some mediocre guy), it's clear we can't do it just by trading prospects. We just don't have any who are good enough to bring that kind of return. So, I've been thinking about what major leaguers we have who are good players, yet expendable.

No. 1 on my list is Jonathan Schoop. I really like him, and especially enjoy his interaction with Manny Machado. But I think at the end of the day he has some limits as a player. If we moved Flaherty to 2B to replace him, we'd lose a little on defense, but not too much. On offense, we'd lose quite a bit, but due to Schoop's low OBP tendencies, not an irreparable amount.

No. 2 on my list is Mychal Givens. Any team could use a guy like that in their bullopen, but with Britton, O'Day and Brach, he's a bit of a luxury item for us. And, he does have some issues vs. LHP.

Now obviously, I wouldn't give up a good 2B with 3 more years of team control remaining after this one, and a good relief pitcher with 5 more years of team control remaining, for a rental or even a guy with one more year of control. It would have to be a very good starting pitcher who is under control through 2018 or longer. Honestly, I haven't thought much about who might fit the bill. Is there a match out there? Julio Teheran is said to be available -- would that work, if we threw a decent prospect into the mix with Schoop and Givens?

One other thing -- do we dare trade Schoop if Manny hasn't signed a long-term deal and we are still hoping to sign him?

Name the guys that you consider good and I might.

[DrungoHazewood]

Teheran's a legit #2 starter that could become a number 1. Problem is - You make a move like that with our system that has nobody to replace Schoop... what's the point? Unless you have a plan to get a good 2nd baseman, I'd pass. This is a new baseball era where you don't need top of the rotation starting pitchers to win a WS. You need multiple players like Givens - as relievers like him stay underpaid.

Offloading Schoop and Givens probably puts you 3, 4, maybe five wins in the hole for the next 3-4 years. Is Chris Archer going to make up for that? Who is? Teheran, maybe, but he already gives up a lot of homers as a NL pitcher.

[weams]

Atlanta might be more interested in Bundy, Sisco, Wright, for Teheran.

Two potential starters with bullpen as fallback. 5-6 years of service time for all 3.

O's lose little value from current team.

I'd do that.

[weams]

I say roll with what we have until the deadline. Here are a few that I could come up with and what I think they would cost,

1. Julio Teheran-Atlanta

Bundy, Sisco, O.Peralta

2. Sonny Gray-Athletics

Bundy, Schoop, Hess

or

Bundy, Schoop, Lee, Ubaldo for Gray, Lowrie, Crisp

3. Jose Fernandez-Marlins

Bundy, Sisco, Peralta, Lee

4. Matt Harvey-Mets

Trumbo

Obviously the price is steep. I don't see a team that's out of it wanting to trade for a reliever like Givens, and I don't see a team that's in it wanting to trade a TOR SP. For Givens it would have to be a three team deal or wait till the offseason. I'll leave the three team trade scenarios to others.

Gray and Lee are both currently disabled.

[DrungoHazewood]

4. Matt Harvey-Mets

Trumbo

3.5 years of Harvey for a half-year of Trumbo? The Mets would be insane to trade Harvey for Trumbo if their contracts were identical. Unless Harvey is hurt... then why would we want him?

[tntoriole]

I love Schoop but keeping him over a Kershaw or Bumarner is ridiculous. TB wanted Soler or Baiz for Cobb. Are either of those two that much more valuable than Schoop and Givens? Really people complain because we haven't addressed SP, then when having to face the fact that you have give up something to get what you need, they say no, no, we like our guys. Well is the only way to improve the SP to spend 35 M + AAV on some 30 something FA?

A lot of it is luck, though some of it is skill. Jason Hammel was signed by the Cubs to a 1 year deal, flipped to the As (along with Samardzija) that July of 2014 for Addison Russell, et. al. then signed again that winter as a free agent by the Cubs to a 2 year with a third team option year at 18 million total. 7-1, 2.14 ERA this year. I would certainly like to have Jason in the rotation right now and he would not have cost 35 million plus AAV (or draft picks or players) but he cost more that winter than the team was willing to spend. And sometimes some GMs make better choices than others.

[DrungoHazewood]

A lot of it is luck, though some of it is skill. Jason Hammel was signed by the Cubs to a 1 year deal, flipped to the As (along with Samardzija) that July of 2014 for Addison Russell, et. al. then signed again that winter as a free agent by the Cubs to a 2 year with a third team option year at 18 million total. 7-1, 2.14 ERA this year. I would certainly like to have Jason in the rotation right now and he would not have cost 35 million plus AAV (or draft picks or players) but he cost more that winter than the team was willing to spend. And sometimes some GMs make better choices than others.

Of course the reason he was available for 2/18 plus an option was his near-5.00 ERA with the O's in 2013, and his 4.26 ERA/5+ FIP with the A's the second half of '14. And his 144 innings/season from 2012-14.

I certainly would have rather had him than Gallardo, but he wasn't available this year and that's a pretty low bar to clear. I might have gone with Eddie Gamboa over Gallardo.

[TradeAngelos]

As I try to think about who we could trade to get a good starting pitcher (not some mediocre guy), it's clear we can't do it just by trading prospects. We just don't have any who are good enough to bring that kind of return. So, I've been thinking about what major leaguers we have who are good players, yet expendable.

No. 1 on my list is Jonathan Schoop. I really like him, and especially enjoy his interaction with Manny Machado. But I think at the end of the day he has some limits as a player. If we moved Flaherty to 2B to replace him, we'd lose a little on defense, but not too much. On offense, we'd lose quite a bit, but due to Schoop's low OBP tendencies, not an irreparable amount.

No. 2 on my list is Mychal Givens. Any team could use a guy like that in their bullopen, but with Britton, O'Day and Brach, he's a bit of a luxury item for us. And, he does have some issues vs. LHP.

Now obviously, I wouldn't give up a good 2B with 3 more years of team control remaining after this one, and a good relief pitcher with 5 more years of team control remaining, for a rental or even a guy with one more year of control. It would have to be a very good starting pitcher who is under control through 2018 or longer. Honestly, I haven't thought much about who might fit the bill. Is there a match out there? Julio Teheran is said to be available -- would that work, if we threw a decent prospect into the mix with Schoop and Givens?

One other thing -- do we dare trade Schoop if Manny hasn't signed a long-term deal and we are still hoping to sign him?

I totally agree Schoop has some limitations that a lot of fans don't want to acknowledge. I think his "ceiling" is a lot lower than I have heard people saying, even only being 24. He might have a little more growth, but not that much.

I don't agree what we do with him has even the slightest effect on what Manny does. I was actually just thinking about this today.

This is business, and remember we are dealing with Manny and the agent. The agent will tell him it means nothing what happens with your buddy, worry about yourself, get the best deal for YOU. And I think most players will listen to that. If we step up to the plate with a serious offer, whatever happens with Schoop isn't going to mean a hill of beans. This isn't the playground taking guys for a pickup game that you are friends with. And again Lozano will make that very clear.

As far as the trade....the guy coming back would have to have some control like the players we are giving up. All about the match, but I'm guessing we could get a #3 out of it at best. TOR? No chance.