Wieters Talks About Accepting QO And The Future

[Dark Helmet]

Love Matt, but I would rather use the money for Manny and/or Schoop.

I don't think the two go hand in hand anymore. I think the Davis signing showed the money is there for the player of the O's are set on bringing that player back. If the Orioles sign Matt (Which I believe they will) then I trust they feel they have the capability of signing Machado too. I think Matt wants to stay here and I think it will be in the range of a 4/60m deal.

[ISU94]

Not a huge MW fan but I think there is a much better chance he is resigned with Buck at the helm.

I love Wieters, so I'd like to see him be here long term but with Sisco and co. in minors I just don't see it. I know Buck will be in his corner, and pending on numbers and whether we move Sisco at deadline I wouldn't be opposed, just not sure it makes much sense. We have some guys who are going to get paid. If we pay Wieters, Schoop, etc. than Machado is DEFINITELY on the outs. We can't pay everyone. Not sure I'm ready to close door on Manny yet.

[ISU94]

I'm sure Dan will find a way to trade Sisco and Heim for Feldman (or similar). Then we'll have to resign Matt.

DD has made a couple questionable moves, but you are going way overboard here. Sisco is hitting .300+ and killing every level. Not bringing much power, but if the guy can continously hit and get on base behind the plate I'd take it. Hell, the bat could even fit in LF.

We aren't trading Sisco unless we get a solid arm back. Quote me on it. He's arguably our best prospect, only 21/22 years old, and is on the fast track with the bat (defense is the thing that needs work though). We dealt Hader who was a lot less regarded for Norris who was great for us. We dealt E-Rod for a dominant RP in a pennant race (E-Rod wasn't doing what he was doing in BOS last year either here in BAL), and Davies (yes, he'd help right now, but let's not act like this guy is anything more than a 4/5 starter) for Parra who didn't end up working out.

DD has had his troubles, but he's also done some good things. There's a reason why the Blue Jays really wanted him last year and there was talks this past offseason I believe too.

[Can_of_corn]

DD has made a couple questionable moves, but you are going way overboard here. Sisco is hitting .300+ and killing every level. Not bringing much power, but if the guy can continously hit and get on base behind the plate I'd take it. Hell, the bat could even fit in LF.

We aren't trading Sisco unless we get a solid arm back. Quote me on it. He's arguably our best prospect, only 21/22 years old, and is on the fast track with the bat (defense is the thing that needs work though). We dealt Hader who was a lot less regarded for Norris who was great for us. We dealt E-Rod for a dominant RP in a pennant race (E-Rod wasn't doing what he was doing in BOS last year either here in BAL), and Davies (yes, he'd help right now, but let's not act like this guy is anything more than a 4/5 starter) for Parra who didn't end up working out.

DD has had his troubles, but he's also done some good things. There's a reason why the Blue Jays really wanted him last year and there was talks this past offseason I believe too.

Your definition of great is wildly different than mine.

[ISU94]

I don't think the two go hand in hand anymore. I think the Davis signing showed the money is there for the player of the O's are set on bringing that player back. If the Orioles sign Matt (Which I believe they will) then I trust they feel they have the capability of signing Machado too. I think Matt wants to stay here and I think it will be in the range of a 4/60m deal.

If you think we can pay Matt 4/60, Manny some huge deal, Davis with that 160M deal, Schoop who is going to command a lucrative contract, DOD who is a very highly paid reliever, etc. than I wish I had your optimism.

We aren't a HUGE market team. Hell, our attendance is down this year which won't help things (which is especially alarming with how well we're doing). We aren't going to be able to pay everyone. Tillman I think only has a couple years left on his contract. Schoop isn't far off from needed a deal. We've talked Machado's contract to death. Bundy/Gausman is nice but that's all we have LONG term in rotation.

I would love to see Wieters stay here long term, but with a lot of catching prospects in our system playing well, as well as the likely demands of MW with Boras as his agent, I think it'd be best to move on unless we can get him for like 3/45 or somewhere around there.

[ISU94]

Your definition of great is wildly different than mine.

In 2014 he pitched to a mid 3 ERA. We gave Hader who ended up being a lot better than most expected to get him. At the time, that wasn't a huge cost at all. You hope you can tell the future of a prospect, and I would think if he thought Hader had the upside that he is showing NOW than I would think he wouldn't have done that.

You can't see the future, but giving Hader to get Norris AT THE TIME when we were competing, was a solid move. He was a big part to our success in 2014. That isn't one of the trades I'm going to plaster him for, hindsight is 20/20.

Edit: Now this isn't to say Hader wasn't a solid prospect back then, but he has taken some pretty large steps to get where he's gotten. The package when we first got Norris was nothing crazy at the time. I wasn't a huge fan of it as I liked Hader, but we were competing and needed a starter. They don't grow on trees, as we have obviously seen.

[weams]

In 2014 he pitched to a mid 3 ERA. We gave Hader who ended up being a lot better than most expected to get him. At the time, that wasn't a huge cost at all. You hope you can tell the future of a prospect, and I would think if he thought Hader had the upside that he is showing NOW than I would think he wouldn't have done that.

You can't see the future, but giving Hader to get Norris AT THE TIME when we were competing, was a solid move. He was a big part to our success in 2014. That isn't one of the trades I'm going to plaster him for, hindsight is 20/20.

Edit: Now this isn't to say Hader wasn't a solid prospect back then, but he has taken some pretty large steps to get where he's gotten. The package when we first got Norris was nothing crazy at the time. I wasn't a huge fan of it as I liked Hader, but we were competing and needed a starter. They don't grow on trees, as we have obviously seen.

Bud Norris was a big part of the only Orioles Team on the brink of the World Series in almost 2 decades.

[Can_of_corn]

In 2014 he pitched to a mid 3 ERA. We gave Hader who ended up being a lot better than most expected to get him. At the time, that wasn't a huge cost at all. You hope you can tell the future of a prospect, and I would think if he thought Hader had the upside that he is showing NOW than I would think he wouldn't have done that.

You can't see the future, but giving Hader to get Norris AT THE TIME when we were competing, was a solid move. He was a big part to our success in 2014. That isn't one of the trades I'm going to plaster him for, hindsight is 20/20.

Since you like ERA...

In 2013 he put up a 4.80 ERA.

In 2015 he put up a 7.06 ERA.

You think being bad in 2013, being above average in 2014 and being Ubaldo bad in 2015 constitutes "great"?

And for the record Dan gave up more than just Hader in the deal

[weams]

Since you like ERA...

In 2013 he put up a 4.80 ERA.

In 2015 he put up a 7.06 ERA.

You think being bad in 2013, being above average in 2014 and being Ubaldo bad in 2015 constitutes "great"?

And for the record Dan gave up more than just Hader in the deal

Pretty much just Hader. And if you through out 2015 and do not use projection stats to determine his value to the team, Bud did just fine. And was just what the Orioles needed for both 2013 and 2014P

[ISU94]

Since you like ERA...

In 2013 he put up a 4.80 ERA.

In 2015 he put up a 7.06 ERA.

You think being bad in 2013, being above average in 2014 and being Ubaldo bad in 2015 constitutes "great"?

And for the record Dan gave up more than just Hader in the deal

Ok, if you want to just base your opinion on me saying "great" I'll retract it. In 2014, he was a HUGE part in our success and getting to where we did is what I'm saying. We wanted a World Series, trading a young arm that was 3+ years away for much needed starter help NOW was a no brainer. No one saw Hader becoming this good. It happens.

You acting as if it was some bonehead move and means DD will trade anyone to get any arm is just you looking at hindsight while seeing Norris not on the team and seeing Hader becoming a top prospect now.

AT THE TIME, it was a solid move that needed to be made. We needed a starter, Norris was a solid option, and was a big part of a team that had a chance at a WS. I'll trade a prospect that has nice upside for a piece that could help net us a World Series any day...and I am HUGE on having a good farm system.

[Can_of_corn]

Pretty much just Hader. And if you through out 2015 and do not use projection stats to determine his value to the team, Bud did just fine. And was just what the Orioles needed for both 2013 and 2014P

So "just fine" is "great"?

And Norris cost the #35 pick, which had a slot value of $1.588MM.

#35, that's a first round pick.

Dan for 3M for a comp second round pick this year.

[Can_of_corn]

Ok, if you want to just base your opinion on me saying "great" I'll retract it. In 2014, he was a HUGE part in our success and getting to where we did is what I'm saying. We wanted a World Series, trading a young arm that was 3+ years away for much needed starter help NOW was a no brainer. No one saw Hader becoming this good. It happens.

You acting as if it was some bonehead move and means DD will trade anyone to get any arm is just you looking at hindsight while seeing Norris not on the team and seeing Hader becoming a top prospect now.

AT THE TIME, it was a solid move that needed to be made. We needed a starter, Norris was a solid option, and was a big part of a team that had a chance at a WS. I'll trade a prospect that has nice upside for a piece that could help net us a World Series any day...and I am HUGE on having a good farm system.

He was pretty much interchangeable with Tillman, Gonzo, Chen and Gausman that year. They all did pretty much the same. I certainly don't think he was the difference in that team making the playoffs.

As for accusing me of hindsight? Go look up the thread.

I don't play that game.

[ISU94]

Pretty much just Hader. And if you through out 2015 and do not use projection stats to determine his value to the team, Bud did just fine. And was just what the Orioles needed for both 2013 and 2014P

Exactly my point.

Obviously now, would we rather have Hader? Of course. But at the time, it made sense and was needed. It ended up being a move that helped us get where we wanted to be, although not quite getting us that WS. You take the chance.

[ISU94]

He was pretty much interchangeable with Tillman, Gonzo, Chen and Gausman that year. They all did pretty much the same. I certainly don't think he was the difference in that team making the playoffs.

Well, that's your opinion which is fine. But Norris was a good mid rotation arm in 2014. Something that we needed, and something that helped us get to the playoffs and make a run. I'm happy with that move, although it sucks we lost out on Hader.

[Dark Helmet]

If you think we can pay Matt 4/60, Manny some huge deal, Davis with that 160M deal, Schoop who is going to command a lucrative contract, DOD who is a very highly paid reliever, etc. than I wish I had your optimism.

We aren't a HUGE market team. Hell, our attendance is down this year which won't help things (which is especially alarming with how well we're doing). We aren't going to be able to pay everyone. Tillman I think only has a couple years left on his contract. Schoop isn't far off from needed a deal. We've talked Machado's contract to death. Bundy/Gausman is nice but that's all we have LONG term in rotation.

I would love to see Wieters stay here long term, but with a lot of catching prospects in our system playing well, as well as the likely demands of MW with Boras as his agent, I think it'd be best to move on unless we can get him for like 3/45 or somewhere around there.

Schoop is still under team control for 4 more years. If they sign Wieters to a 3 or 4 years deal, he'll be off the books before Schoop is a FA. And Machado will most likely want an opt out. Any deal with Machado will wind up being a 5 year deal.