240/296/387/684 may mean no QO for Wieters

[ChuckS]

Why wouldn't they QO him? Worse case he accepts and you pay him a 1/16m deal. If he declines and the market isn't there, it may force him into considering a reasonable extension.

We need to address RF. Arbitration increases could increase our payroll 30 plus mil a lone.

Paying Matt 16.7 mil next year will debilitate our ability to improve other holes. I'll take Chance Sisco at 500,000 or another guy I can platoon with Caleb at a couple mil on a one year deal.

[Dark Helmet]

We need to address RF. Arbitration increases could increase our payroll 30 plus mil a lone.

Paying Matt 16.7 mil next year will debilitate our ability to improve other holes. I'll take Chance Sisco at 500,000 or another guy I can platoon with Caleb at a couple mil on a one year deal.

Paying Matt this year didn't impair their ability to improve. Everybody keeps acting like you can just throw anybody in there to replace Matt. Joseph has been horrible this year. Not someone I want to rely on next year. And Sisco won't be ready.

[MurphDogg]

We need to address RF. Arbitration increases could increase our payroll 30 plus mil a lone.

Paying Matt 16.7 mil next year will debilitate our ability to improve other holes. I'll take Chance Sisco at 500,000 or another guy I can platoon with Caleb at a couple mil on a one year deal.

Arbitration won't increase the payroll by much more than $20 million even if Machado, Britton and Tillman all double their salaries, which they won't.

[Dark Helmet]

And as for Bucks use age of Wieters, I think it's pretty simple. He doesn't have any faith in Joseph. A tired Wieters is still better than anything Joseph can offer right now. Sucks for Matt. I'm sure he'd like a break here and there.

[Bahama O's Fan]

Consider you are Matt and/or his agent. The O's offer the QO. Would you rather take the one year deal or perhaps get 4/60 on the market?

[thezeroes]

And as for Bucks use age of Wieters, I think it's pretty simple. He doesn't have any faith in Joseph. A tired Wieters is still better than anything Joseph can offer right now. Sucks for Matt. I'm sure he'd like a break here and there.

If Buck had no faith in Caleb Joseph he would have been optioned to Norfolk and someone brought up in his stead.

[Dark Helmet]

If Buck had no faith in Caleb Joseph he would have been optioned to Norfolk and someone brought up in his stead.

Then why isn't he playing? And the guys most likely to be any better than Joseph aren't ready. And those guys need to be starting in the minors getting experience, not riding the bench.

[Dark Helmet]

If Buck had no faith in Caleb Joseph he would have been optioned to Norfolk and someone brought up in his stead.

Plus, Joseph probably earned Bucks respect when he filled in while Wieters was hurt. But Joseph has been very bad this year. And it's obvious Matt is tired.

[ChuckS]

Paying Matt this year didn't impair their ability to improve. Everybody keeps acting like you can just throw anybody in there to replace Matt. Joseph has been horrible this year. Not someone I want to rely on next year. And Sisco won't be ready.

I see this thrown around, but very few of you have seen him play or have any idea how far his defense has come along.

We can afford to develop his defense if he is going to provide a plus bat. His surface numbers this year are pretty good. Fielding percentage, passed balls, errors, etc. Throwing out over over 25 percent of baserunners, which is fine and could theoretically improve with guys like Tillman and Miley throwing to him.

[Crazysilver03]

Consider you are Matt and/or his agent. The O's offer the QO. Would you rather take the one year deal or perhaps get 4/60 on the market?

Well they had that oprion last winter and took the former.

[ChuckS]

Well they had that oprion last winter and took the former.

With Matt performing similar to how he did last year, I would think there is a high probability he takes the QO if you throw it at him again.

He needs to perform much better down the stretch for us to consider doing that IMO. If he finishes with a sub .700 OPS he will not be getting a QO. That doesn't mean they won't sign him to a two or three year deal, but I think chances are he is finished here.

Can't live and die in free agency. Our no. 1 prospect is a catcher and is close to being ready. It makes too much sense not to give him a shot. Caleb is pretty good insurance for a guy who may be a defensive liability.

[Bahama O's Fan]

But he is one year older and has not "busted" out. If you are Matt or his agent, what would YOU do?

[TradeAngelos]

If you map out the top end salary structures of contracts over the next few years, there is simply no room for Wieters. You get a stop gap for a few million in 2017 and hope one of the young guys is ready for 2018.

We can't pay him a QO. We can't pay him in a multi year deal. We have a (self imposed) budget. Those are the facts.

I actually need to go update my projections now with Miley in the fold. It wasn't happening before him, and he makes it just about impossible.

Here is why....

In 2016, the "top contracts" (The 13 players starting with Machado making over 5m, not including Miley/Pearce) add up to about 122.5m.

In 2017, MINUS Wieters and Pedro....AND Trumbo, they add up to about 117m when arb increases are factored in.

Now recently, we have just added 9m to that 2017 number. So we are at 126m in 2017, without Wieters,Alverez, and Trumbo already an 4m increase. For 3 less "key" players in the fold. Now one would assume our fearless leader would bump up the payroll a teeny tiny bit as little as possible, so that would probably cap up at around 130m for 2017 instead of the 122.5 of 2016. So where are you spending that?.4m?? Right. It is 4m. Not 14. Not 24. We probably have about 4m to lock up Wieters, Trumbo, or Alvarez. Even if Pete was so generous to extend another say?5m in 2017 I doesn?t cover any of those 3 players, or even close.

Now here is where we might have some saving grace IF the owner wants to look ahead to the next year (2018) like any competent businessman should who has a World Series Contender right under his nose.

In 2018, we have some significant money coming off the books, in the form of Hardy, Ubaldo, and Gallardo. I had originally pegged in 15m for another 3/4ish starting pitcher at that point, but with Bundy that may not be necessary. If we take out the need for that pitcher, we are down to about 109m (that is including more arb increases BTW to all). But again that is less Hardy, Ubaldo, Wieters, Alvarez, and Trumbo from the current team.

I ?had? 15m in the fold at that point for another 3 or 4 type starting pitcher, but Bundy would seem to be taking care of that if all things go as planned. That is another 15m to play with, and if you count on another incremental increase in the payroll, probably about a 140m budget to work with for the top end contracts. That leaves us with a whopping 31m to work with in 2018, enough for two other players from somewhere. Of course we will have to replace Hardy, and Gallardo. Oh but guess what?.Miley has a 12m option, and if that is picked up we actually don?t have much to work with, and if it isn?t we need another pitcher. The hope there would be some young cheap guy could fill that role, but who know at this point.

Bottom line is if the team is doing 3 year projections, they should see that while 2017 is going to be tight, 2018 is not going to be at all (but there will be significant bodies to replace). If they were willing to shift some of that money from 2018 to 2017, we could easily keep one of Trumbo or Wieters, Alvarez to a lesser extent. If it were up to me that would be Trumbo, not Wieters.

If it wasn?t for Bundy we would be in a world of hurt, but that surplus value is going to likely make it so we can afford one guy who we didn?t think was possible before. I just hope that isn?t a 31 year old catcher, as much as I love Wieters and what he does for us. And what Joseph isn?t.

[TradeAngelos]

BTW if someone could tell me why when I type a post that the text just keeps going to the right and never gives me a paragraph that would be great. It is pretty annoying and Word doesn't format right as I we can see if I copy/paste. So annoying.

[Prayin4Reign]

Why sign him to a QO at 1/$17M when we could get him for something like 3/$20M?

That's not going to happen. You really think Scott Boras is going to be OK with a 3 yr/20 million dollar contract for Wieters? You really think that's his value?

Think 4/44 - 4/48 minimum.