How much will Chance Sisco influence the 2017 roster?

[Can_of_corn]

I think there is less pressure to play 2nd base and hit #9 slot in the order.

Than play starting catcher for any big league team.

Sure.

What does that have to do with Schoop being rushed or not?

He had a serious injury while playing at Norfolk and never really got settled.

He was, like Manny, promoted due to need.

[Number5]

Machado had a 98 OPS+ in 2012, with a 102 in 2013.

His OPB in AA in 2012 was fine but sub .800 so he wasn't exactly dominating the competition.

Schoop had an OPS+ of 65 his first full year. He only played 70 games in Norfolk the season prior where his OPS was under 700, he did even worse in the AFL.

I don't think you can make a solid case that Schoop's offense was ready.

Well, we are certainly in disagreement. Machado and Schoop both proved themselves to be MLB ready from everything I have seen. Until now, I haven't really heard any claims to the contrary. Really hard to see any reason why one would try to say that Machado was rushed, and Schoop, while certainly no Machado (who is?), has done very well for his age and experience level and has proven to be a solid major league ballplayer. If that is rushing, we need to be rushing a lot more players. I see no real comparison between them and Sisco. I have seen no reports anywhere indicating that Sisco is ready to catch in the majors. Have you?

[Can_of_corn]

Well, we are certainly in disagreement. Machado and Schoop both proved themselves to be MLB ready from everything I have seen. Until now, I haven't really heard any claims to the contrary. Really hard to see any reason why one would try to say that Machado was rushed, and Schoop, while certainly no Machado (who is?), has done very well for his age and experience level and has proven to be a solid major league ballplayer. If that is rushing, we need to be rushing a lot more players. I see no real comparison between them and Sisco. I have seen no reports anywhere indicating that Sisco is ready to catch in the majors. Have you?

You missed out on all the posts that advocated Schoop getting sent down in 2014? Was some talk in 2015 as well.

[Enjoy Terror]

The Orioles looked positioned to sign Castro/Iannetta/Suzuki to 2 or 3 years with Pena backing up, working Cisco in with the veteran.

[Ruzious]

The Orioles looked positioned to sign Castro/Iannetta/Suzuki to 2 or 3 years with Pena backing up, working Cisco in with the veteran.

Oof. Suzuki is the closest to adequate of them.

[Enjoy Terror]

Oof. Suzuki is the closest to adequate of them.

They're all about the same as far as I can tell.

[Redskins Rick]

Oof. Suzuki is the closest to adequate of them.

he put up a -.9 WAR this season and -1.3 the year before.

[Number5]

You missed out on all the posts that advocated Schoop getting sent down in 2014? Was some talk in 2015 as well.

Haven't missed a thing. I think perhaps you are defining "rushed" as meaning earlier than the normal progression, rather than being in over their head - prior to being ready. I consider the latter as the definition of being "rushed."

I'm quite happy with both Machado and Schoop. As I said, if that is what you consider to be rushing players, by all means, let's rush some more.

I also believe you may be placing too much weight on certain offensive statistics, when evidence of the ability to play a major league caliber defense is vital to a player's development prior to promotion. Both Machado and Schoop clearly showed they were ready defensively. I'm not qualified to determine if Sisco plays the catcher position at a major-league level, but what I've read from folks that are more qualified to do so says no. Again, I don't see the validity in your having compared Sisco to Machado and Schoop, which is what we are talking about..

[Can_of_corn]

Haven't missed a thing. I think perhaps you are defining "rushed" as meaning earlier than the normal progression, rather than being in over their head - prior to being ready. I consider the latter as the definition of being "rushed."

I'm quite happy with both Machado and Schoop. As I said, if that is what you consider to be rushing players, by all means, let's rush some more.

I also believe you may be placing too much weight on certain offensive statistics, when evidence of the ability to play a major league caliber defense is vital to a player's development prior to promotion. Both Machado and Schoop clearly showed they were ready defensively. I'm not qualified to determine if Sisco plays the catcher position at a major-league level, but what I've read from folks that are more qualified to do so says no. Again, I don't see the validity in your having compared Sisco to Machado and Schoop, which is what we are talking about..

Machado and Schoop appeared to be MLB-ready on both sides of the ball.

So which is it?

And yes an earlier than normal progression is most certainly a definition of "rushed". In addition I will say that Schoop was pretty clearly over his head on offense his first full year.

A player can be rushed and still manage to succeed.

[Redskins Rick]

So which is it?

And yes an earlier than normal progression is most certainly a definition of "rushed". In addition I will say that Schoop was pretty clearly over his head on offense his first full year.

A player can be rushed and still manage to succeed.

Usually a term like force feed, you rush somebody and its stunts their development.

Schoop showing improvement would led one to believe that he wasn't impacted in a negative way.

[Can_of_corn]

Usually a term like force feed, you rush somebody and its stunts their development.

Schoop showing improvement would led one to believe that he wasn't impacted in a negative way.

I disagree with your terms.

Brooks was undeniably force fed and his later success doesn't change that fact.

[Number5]

So which is it?

And yes an earlier than normal progression is most certainly a definition of "rushed". In addition I will say that Schoop was pretty clearly over his head on offense his first full year.

A player can be rushed and still manage to succeed.

No sense continuing the conversation, since you are saying that "rushed" simply means "earlier than normal." Defining terms for your own convenience is a fallacious argument. When a player is referred to as being rushed, I think we all know what that means, and it isn't merely that he was young.

[Redskins Rick]

I disagree with your terms.

Brooks was undeniably force fed and his later success doesn't change that fact.

SMH, now you and I are pretty much going to agree to disagree.

6 games at 18, 15 games @ 19 and then 50 games at 20, is not force feeding.

[Can_of_corn]

No sense continuing the conversation, since you are saying that "rushed" simply means "earlier than normal." Defining terms for your own convenience is a fallacious argument. When a player is referred to as being rushed, I think we all know what that means, and it isn't merely that he was young.

You don't want to explain how you jumped from "both sides of the ball" to "defensively ready"? I'm shocked.

[Can_of_corn]

SMH, now you and I are pretty much going to agree to disagree.

6 games at 18, 15 games @ 19 and then 50 games at 20, is not force feeding.

Promoting someone to the majors who was very clearly not ready.