And People Doubt Brach's value? (Ziegler Signs with Marlins)

[Rene88]

4 hours ago, ArtVanDelay said:

Brad only has 2 years of control left. He's good but he's not anything special. 5 years of Mallex Smith is a good deal for the O's. 

We aren't getting Victor Robles for Brad Brach. (Unless Rizzo is dumber than I thought.)

Did you see what he gave up for Adam Eaton?:)

[Moondoggie]

1 hour ago, Number5 said:

I'm not sure what you are basing your last statement on, but the facts (Arrieta, Brault, Tarpley, Davies, ERod, etc.) would tend to indicate the opposite to me.

Sorry, but I don't see anything there that indicates taking a chance. They gave up on Arrieta and traded him for a veteran rental arm. Brault and Tarpley were like the 16th and 18th ranked prospects in the system and they traded them for a big league outfielder (albeit one who turned out to be a bust). I thought it was foolish to trade for Parra when they should have been dealing their pending free agents, but it's not like Davies was Gausman or Bundy (although he may turn out to be a decent back of the rotation starter). Rodriguez was the cost of Andrew Miller.

On the other hand, we were being told how much they loved Dariel Alvarez and Christian Walker, but they haven't been given a chance (and probably rightfully so). They act like Mancini is a top prospect when his comp is probably Matt Adams of the Cardinals. Dan is always talking up a farm system that nobody else rates very highly, but he never has the prospects to pull off trades for top players. And they certainly overrated Chris Davis when they outbid themselves to give him that big long-term contract last winter, just as they're overrating Mark Trumbo now if they've offered him the sort of contract that's been reported. But they won't spend that sort of money for anybody from outside the club (add a bit more to that Trumbo offer and you might get Encarnacion)

The truth is the Orioles take a middle path. They just plug holes the best they can. On the other hand, they don't take chances on other teams' prospects either. Imagine what they could have gotten in return for Davis and Chen at the 2015 trade deadline. They always play it safe.

[Can_of_corn]

1 minute ago, Moondoggie said:

Sorry, but I don't see anything there that indicates taking a chance. They gave up on Arrieta and traded him for a veteran rental arm. Brault and Tarpley were like the 16th and 18th ranked prospects in the system and they traded them for a big league outfielder (albeit one who turned out to be a bust). I thought it was foolish to trade for Parra when they should have been dealing their pending free agents, but it's not like Davies was Gausman or Bundy (although he may turn out to be a decent back of the rotation starter). Rodriguez was the cost of Andrew Miller.

On the other hand, we were being told how much they loved Dariel Alvarez and Christian Walker, but they haven't been given a chance (and probably rightfully so). They act like Mancini is a top prospect when his comp is probably Matt Adams of the Cardinals. Dan is always talking up a farm system that nobody else rates very highly, but he never has the prospects to pull off trades for top players. And they certainly overrated Chris Davis when they outbid themselves to give him that big long-term contract last winter, just as they're overrating Mark Trumbo now if they've offered him the sort of contract that's been reported. But they won't spend that sort of money for anybody from outside the club (add a bit more to that Trumbo offer and you might get Encarnacion)

The truth is the Orioles take a middle path. They just plug holes the best they can. On the other hand, they don't take chances on other teams' prospects either. Imagine what they could have gotten in return for Davis and Chen at the 2015 trade deadline. They always play it safe.

I think that is just Dan spinning things for the fans.

I don't don't take much stock in those types of comments.

Maybe it makes the casual fan happy.

[Moondoggie]

11 minutes ago, Rene88 said:

Did you see what he gave up for Adam Eaton?:)

But did you see that they got Adam Eaton? Five years, great contract, on the upswing of his career.

[Moondoggie]

1 minute ago, Can_of_corn said:

I think that is just Dan spinning things for the fans.

I don't don't take much stock in those types of comments.

Maybe it makes the casual fan happy.

That's probably true. It's why I call him Senator Duquette. Always the politician. Rarely really says anything. I wish he'd stop it.

[weams]

3 hours ago, Moondoggie said:

 

The problem, of course, is that the Orioles tend to overvalue their own players with regularity and they're afraid to take chances.

Really just a shot with no backing data. 

[weams]

12 minutes ago, Moondoggie said:

 

The truth is the Orioles take a middle path. They just plug holes the best they can. On the other hand, they don't take chances on other teams' prospects either. Imagine what they could have gotten in return for Davis and Chen at the 2015 trade deadline. They always play it safe.

Again. Not true. They have tried every year of Dan Duquette's tenure to be a winning club and to put all of the resources that were allotted to them to achieve that. Sometimes to a long term detriment. 

[weams]

16 minutes ago, Moondoggie said:

Sorry, but I don't see anything there that indicates taking a chance. They gave up on Arrieta and traded him for a veteran rental arm. Brault and Tarpley were like the 16th and 18th ranked prospects in the system and they traded them for a big league outfielder (albeit one who turned out to be a bust). I thought it was foolish to trade for Parra when they should have been dealing their pending free agents, but it's not like Davies was Gausman or Bundy (although he may turn out to be a decent back of the rotation starter). Rodriguez was the cost of Andrew Miller.

On the other hand, we were being told how much they loved Dariel Alvarez and Christian Walker, but they haven't been given a chance (and probably rightfully so). They act like Mancini is a top prospect when his comp is probably Matt Adams of the Cardinals. Dan is always talking up a farm system that nobody else rates very highly, but he never has the prospects to pull off trades for top players. And they certainly overrated Chris Davis when they outbid themselves to give him that big long-term contract last winter, just as they're overrating Mark Trumbo now if they've offered him the sort of contract that's been reported. But they won't spend that sort of money for anybody from outside the club (add a bit more to that Trumbo offer and you might get Encarnacion)

The truth is the Orioles take a middle path. They just plug holes the best they can. On the other hand, they don't take chances on other teams' prospects either. Imagine what they could have gotten in return for Davis and Chen at the 2015 trade deadline. They always play it safe.

Perhaps you think being bold is what Preller has done?

[weams]

22 minutes ago, Moondoggie said:

 

We were being told how much they loved Dariel Alvarez and Christian Walker, but they haven't been given a chance (and probably rightfully so). They act like Mancini is a top prospect when his comp is probably Matt Adams of the Cardinals. Dan is always talking up a farm system that nobody else rates very highly, but he never has the prospects to pull off trades for top players. 

 

I've never heard that any of them were great. I did hear that Schoop and Bundy And Gausman and Givens were strong young players.  And Matt Adams is a good comp for Mancini. I'm sure Dan would not disagree with you much. They just said he has nothing more to prove at his age in the minors. 

 

 

[Moondoggie]

2 hours ago, weams said:

Perhaps you think being bold is what Preller has done?

What does Preller have to do with it?

And you don't think Duquette overhypes his prospects? Here's what he told Melewski about Alvarez and Little Yaz in December 2014:

Quote

“We like Alvarez. I mean he had a great year last year. Made good contact, hit over .300 at Double-A and Triple-A. Had 17 homers, 83 RBIs. Mike Yastrzemski had as good a year as anybody in our system. He was up for our minor league Player of the Year. Showed extra-base power, could steal a base with excellent defense and a good arm. 

“He showed he’s a five-tool player and Alvarez also showed that he could be a five-tool player. That is exciting to have two young players like that in the minors. Granted they need more seasoning, but they could come up and make a contribution to the major league team in 2015.”

Five-tool players? Really? I'd say those are pretty cheaply made tools. And he's always claiming all this interest from other clubs in these guys, so you'd think they could at least flip them for guys to fill these holes if they're not going to use these guys to fill them.

[wildbillhiccup]

7 hours ago, Rene88 said:

Someone just said they were happy with Mallex Smith for him. I think that's a very low return.

I saw from an article from the Score that the O's unofficially put him open to bidders. Where do you think he ends up? Mets? Based on Rizzo's one terrible trade, I would be waiting outside Rizzo's office to trade with the Nats for Brach, they need a closer.

So what you're saying is the title of your post (and your original comment) are both completely unfounded or backed by any facts? Yep, that sounds about right. At least you're consistent. 

[wildbillhiccup]

3 hours ago, Rene88 said:

Did you see what he gave up for Adam Eaton?:)

And now you're comparing Brad Brach to Adam Eaton? Yep, you just lost your final thread of credibility. 

[weams]

14 minutes ago, Moondoggie said:

What does Preller have to do with it?

And you don't think Duquette overhypes his prospects? Here's what he told Melewski about Alvarez and Little Yaz in December 2014:

Five-tool players? Really? I'd say those are pretty cheaply made tools. And he's always claiming all this interest from other clubs in these guys, so you'd think they could at least flip them for guys to fill these holes if they're not going to use these guys to fill them.

Top ten picks flame out too. Prospects are just that.