Russell's (NOT) Coming.

[Ohfan67]

25 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

If I can get labor costs at a 30% discount I'd do it.

True. But it seems quite the coincidence that teams are more willing to take players to the hearing than in past years. Especially when 300k is couch cushion money in MLB. 

 

I'm assuming that teams are more likely to take players to arbitration hearings this year (largely based on DD's language), but it could be that players and their agents are pushing teams to arbitration hearings more this year. Or maybe the spike in the number of hearings this year is random. 

[Can_of_corn]

54 minutes ago, Ohfan67 said:

True. But it seems quite the coincidence that teams are more willing to take players to the hearing than in past years. Especially when 300k is couch cushion money in MLB. 

 

I'm assuming that teams are more likely to take players to arbitration hearings this year (largely based on DD's language), but it could be that players and their agents are pushing teams to arbitration hearings more this year. Or maybe the spike in the number of hearings this year is random. 

Is it couch money when payroll has been climbing steadily and the team has taken on the practice of selling draft picks?  I think Dan is leaving a lot of money for in-season additions.  Saving a million could make a difference down the road.

[Aristotelian]

2 hours ago, Can_of_corn said:

 

Shocking, just shocking, that a guy with a .400 OPS and zero RBI did not get a 100% pay raise! I am a big Caleb Joseph fan but you have to wonder what he was thinking.

[Can_of_corn]

9 minutes ago, Aristotelian said:

Shocking, just shocking, that a guy with a .400 OPS and zero RBI did not get a 100% pay raise! I am a big Caleb Joseph fan but you have to wonder what he was thinking.

Fangraphs ran a piece when the O's signed Beef that Caleb was the more valuable player.

That is how strongly some folks believe in framing.

[Frobby]

Remember, the arbitrator is not only considering the previous season, s/he's considering everything the player has done to that point.   Caleb's salary would have been a lot higher than $500 k in 2016 except for the structure of the CBA.    I expected him to lose, but I don't think his position was as ridiculous as people make it sound.  

[thezeroes]

Just now, Frobby said:

Remember, the arbitrator is not only considering the previous season, s/he's considering everything the player has done to that point.   Caleb's salary would have been a lot higher than $500 k in 2016 except for the structure of the CBA.    I expected him to lose, but I don't think his position was as ridiculous as people make it sound.  

I think a lot of the File and Trial had to do with Caleb Jospeph being a "Super Two".  It may have been only $300,000 difference this year but that figure pro-rated out through three more arbitration years ends up being an easy $2 to $4 Million the final year of eligibility.  It is how the system works.  He actually did get a boost of $100 oto $150 thousand if he had not gotten the Super Two status.  See Matt Wieters raises because he missed the Super Two Status by being held back from the Twenty Five man roster.

Year	Age	Team	Salary	ServTm(OpnDay)
2010	24	Baltimore Orioles	$400,000	0.129
2011	25	Baltimore Orioles	$452,250	1.129
2012	26	Baltimore Orioles	$500,000	2.129	contracts

[Can_of_corn]

1 minute ago, thezeroes said:

I think a lot of the File and Trial had to do with Caleb Jospeph being a "Super Two".  It may have been only $300,000 difference this year but that figure pro-rated out through three more arbitration years ends up being an easy $2 to $4 Million the final year of eligibility.  It is how the system works.  He actually did get a boost of $100 oto $150 thousand if he had not gotten the Super Two status.  See Matt Wieters raises because he missed the Super Two Status by being held back from the Twenty Five man roster.

Year	Age	Team	Salary	ServTm(OpnDay)
2010	24	Baltimore Orioles	$400,000	0.129
2011	25	Baltimore Orioles	$452,250	1.129
2012	26	Baltimore Orioles	$500,000	2.129	contracts

Do you think he is likely to be tendered contracts over that whole period of time?

[weams]

3 hours ago, Ohfan67 said:

This case seems incredibly stupid to me. Joseph was terrible last year and the money is ML pocket money. Definitely seems like the O's are trying to make a point with arbitration cases. Overall, owners seem to be playing hard ball with salaries this offseason. A few players have gotten big deals, but a lot of small contracts and unsigned solid veterans. I wonder if the number of arbitration cases is up overall this year? If so, then there may be some mild collusion happening. 

 

Hmm. Just found a list:

http://www.forbes.com/sites/maurybrown/2015/02/23/whos-winning-the-mlb-salary-arbitration-game-heres-data-from-1974-to-2015/2/#55016c4d60ce

This may be the most number of arbitration hearings since about 1992. 

By declaring file and trial, they avoided tension between them and several of the top players for this season. Brach and Gausman can get over it. Well Gausman. I still think Brad gets traded. 

[thezeroes]

Just now, Can_of_corn said:

Do you think he is likely to be tendered contracts over that whole period of time?

It would depend on how healthy he remains through the next three years.  His health had more to do with his lackluster offensive line in 2016 IMO than his being offensively challenged.  Good Health, Good offensive numbers, Excellent defensive stats would equal a decent raise per year.  If not from the Orioles then from somebody else.  (Chance Sisco has more to do with his (Caleb's) tendering than performance)

[Can_of_corn]

5 minutes ago, thezeroes said:

It would depend on how healthy he remains through the next three years.  His health had more to do with his lackluster offensive line in 2016 IMO than his being offensively challenged.  Good Health, Good offensive numbers, Excellent defensive stats would equal a decent raise per year.  If not from the Orioles then from somebody else.  (Chance Sisco has more to do with his (Caleb's) tendering than performance)

So he was hurt when he was putting up abysmal numbers early in the year?

I did not know that.

What kind of injury did he have?

And I think Jospeh is certainly the type of player you non-tender when they hit arb 3 or 4 level.

[thezeroes]

7 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

So he was hurt when he was putting up abysmal numbers early in the year?

I did not know that.

What kind of injury did he have?

And I think Jospeh is certainly the type of player you non-tender when they hit arb 3 or 4 level.

He may be that type of player unless you can possibly keep his playing time in check.  For a backup catcher with very little chance of becoming a stater on another ball club, the Orioles could possibly buy out his arbitration years for a 3/$7 Million.  If he hits well enough to be labelled a starter those $$$ would not make him untradable.  If he know he is apt to only be a backup, I doubt he signs.  We payed more than that AAV for a partial year of Nick Hundley when Wieters went out.

[Can_of_corn]

14 minutes ago, thezeroes said:

He may be that type of player unless you can possibly keep his playing time in check.  For a backup catcher with very little chance of becoming a stater on another ball club, the Orioles could possibly buy out his arbitration years for a 3/$7 Million.  If he hits well enough to be labelled a starter those $$$ would not make him untradable.  If he know he is apt to only be a backup, I doubt he signs.  We payed more than that AAV for a partial year of Nick Hundley when Wieters went out.

You know he's going to be entering his age 31 season right?  I don't see him making it to arb 4.

[thezeroes]

18 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

You know he's going to be entering his age 31 season right?  I don't see him making it to arb 4.

As I stated, the Orioles could buy out his Arb Years.  Caleb may not accept.  A 35 Year old backup catcher is not out of the norm. see chart for 2016 Back Ups, Age,OPS and Cost

Player   Age        OPS        Millions

A.J. Pierzynski   39           0.547     $3.00

David Ross          39           0.784     $2.50

A.J. Ellis                35           0.599     $4.50

Carlos Ruiz          37           0.713     $8.50

Ryan Hanigan     35           0.468     $3.70

Erik Kratz             36           0.258     $3.08

[weams]

2 hours ago, Can_of_corn said:

Fangraphs ran a piece when the O's signed Beef that Caleb was the more valuable player.

That is how strongly some wrong folks believe in framing.

Thew were wrong. They are always wrong. About framing. 

[Can_of_corn]

40 minutes ago, thezeroes said:

As I stated, the Orioles could buy out his Arb Years.  Caleb may not accept.  A 35 Year old backup catcher is not out of the norm. see chart for 2016 Back Ups, Age,OPS and Cost

Player   Age        OPS        Millions

A.J. Pierzynski   39           0.547     $3.00

David Ross          39           0.784     $2.50

A.J. Ellis                35           0.599     $4.50

Carlos Ruiz          37           0.713     $8.50

Ryan Hanigan     35           0.468     $3.70

Erik Kratz             36           0.258     $3.08

I was talking about the idea of extending a backup catcher for multiple years in his 30's.