SI Orioles Winter Report Card

[Can_of_corn]

So, I'll ask again since you neglected the question the first time, why do you feel Trumbo is a better hitter than Carter?

[Number5]

9 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

So, I'll ask again since you neglected the question the first time, why do you feel Trumbo is a better hitter than Carter?

He hits better than Carter by virtually every measure.  Carter walks more.  Period.  Both are sluggers, and Trumbo slugs better.  Both strike out a lot, but Carter strikes out more.  The numbers appear fairly close, but Trumbo's broken foot helps keep the difference appear less.  To me, Trumbo is hands down the better player offensively and defensively.  Certainly nothing you have said would cause me to think otherwise.

[Can_of_corn]

5 minutes ago, Number5 said:

He hits better than Carter by virtually every measure.  Carter walks more.  Period.  Both are sluggers, and Trumbo slugs better.  Both strike out a lot, but Carter strikes out more.  The numbers appear fairly close, but Trumbo's broken foot helps keep the difference appear less.  To me, Trumbo is hands down the better player offensively and defensively.  Certainly nothing you have said would cause me to think otherwise.

I choose OPS+, wOBA and wRC+

OPS+ 112/112

wOBA Carter 336/Trumbo 332

wRC+ Carter 112/Trumbo 111

Going by the stats that tell us the most it's almost a dead heat.  With Carter having a slight edge.

 

So you decided to be give bonus points to Trumbo due to injury.  If that is what you want to do in your own mind go right ahead.  It doesn't make Trumbo the better hitter.

[weams]

1 hour ago, Number5 said:

He hits better than Carter by virtually every measure.  Carter walks more.  Period.  Both are sluggers, and Trumbo slugs better.  Both strike out a lot, but Carter strikes out more.  The numbers appear fairly close, but Trumbo's broken foot helps keep the difference appear less.  To me, Trumbo is hands down the better player offensively and defensively.  Certainly nothing you have said would cause me to think otherwise.

There is a segment of the baseball community that reveres walks and watching pitches. Chris Davis actually watched more strike threes last season than anyone. All searching for that elusive walk. It made his season seem better by some of the aggregate metrics though. 

[backwardsk]

36 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

So, I'll ask again since you neglected the question the first time, why do you feel Trumbo is a better hitter than Carter?

I interested in hearing why you think Carter is better hitter, and if he is better why has he had a lower OPS+ and wRC+ than Trumbo the past two years?

i do agree that Carter is younger.  And I'll go ahead and predict he'll be younger at the end of the season too.

[Number5]

10 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

I choose OPS+, wOBA and wRC+

OPS+ 112/112

wOBA Carter 336/Trumbo 332

wRC+ Carter 112/Trumbo 111

Going by the stats that tell us the most it's almost a dead heat.  With Carter having a slight edge.

 

So you decided to be give bonus points to Trumbo due to injury.  If that is what you want to do in your own mind go right ahead.  It doesn't make Trumbo the better hitter.

Trumbo's hitting makes him the better hitter.  Carter's walks and Trumbo's injury help create the mirage that you are looking at.  The Orioles got the better player, and one that fits what they needed.  Carter would have solved nothing for Baltimore.  Frankly, I don't see that he solved anything for New York, either.  It is amazing to me that anyone would bemoan Trumbo for his faults and suggest Carter as an alternative.  That just doesn't seem logical, as Carter carries Trumbo's shortcomings to another level.  You are welcome to believe otherwise.

[Can_of_corn]

16 minutes ago, backwardsk said:

I interested in hearing why you think Carter is better hitter, and if he is better why has he had a lower OPS+ and wRC+ than Trumbo the past two years?

i do agree that Carter is younger.  And I'll go ahead and predict he'll be younger at the end of the season too.

Because we look at more than the last two years.  Plus I have said numerous times that they are almost identical in their worth as hitters. 

[Can_of_corn]

16 minutes ago, Number5 said:

Trumbo's hitting makes him the better hitter.  Carter's walks and Trumbo's injury help create the mirage that you are looking at.  The Orioles got the better player, and one that fits what they needed.  Carter would have solved nothing for Baltimore.  Frankly, I don't see that he solved anything for New York, either.  It is amazing to me that anyone would bemoan Trumbo for his faults and suggest Carter as an alternative.  That just doesn't seem logical, as Carter carries Trumbo's shortcomings to another level.  You are welcome to believe otherwise.

Well gosh, I can't argue with logic like that.

I should know better, heck I do know better than try and engage you.  You deny evidence more than anyone else currently on this board.

I'm done.

[Ripken]

Already like this team more than '16 and '15.  If we could somehow add a decent starter and a better defensive COF I'd be good with that.

[Frobby]

50 minutes ago, weams said:

There is a segment of the baseball community that revers walks and watching pitches. Chris Davis actually watched more strike threes last season than anyone. All searching for that elusive walk. It made his season seem better by some of the aggregate metrics though. 

There's a segment of the community that believes that a walk is a lot better than an out.     And it's a pretty big segment.

[weams]

27 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

Well gosh, I can't argue with logic like that.

I should know better, heck I do know better than try and engage you.  You deny evidence more than anyone else currently on this board.

I'm done.

He was stating that Trumbo's hitting was actually better than Carter's walking.

[Can_of_corn]

11 minutes ago, weams said:

He was stating that Trumbo's hitting was actually better than Carter's walking.

But it isn't.

Their value as hitters is practically identical. 

 

[weams]

Just now, Can_of_corn said:

But it isn't.

Their value as hitters is practically identical. 

 

He was speaking of hitting. Not walking. 

[Can_of_corn]

9 minutes ago, weams said:

He was speaking of hitting. Not walking. 

So he was dealing from a flawed premise.

Not surprising.
He should have stated that to start with, I wouldn't have wasted my time.

[backwardsk]

23 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

Because we look at more than the last two years.  Plus I have said numerous times that they are almost identical in their worth as hitters. 

Do we weigh all years over a career the same or do we place emphasis on the most recent year?

Was Trumbo a better hitter in 2016?