Tillman is Back

[eddie83]

Tillman was better. Still concerned. Hope he can step up, hard to fathom this team contending without him pitching better.  

[TouchemAll]

40 minutes ago, SteveA said:

A bit encouraged by Tillman's performance today.   Velocity on the fastball was up, breaking stuff was filthy.

Now we need to see if he can do it twice in a row.  I hope my feeling that his shoulder is damaged good turns out to be wrong, but I need more than one respectable start to change my mind.

Yes the breaking stuff was better it kept him in the game. We need him badly hope for the best??

Still concerned his fastball reminds me of Tommy Hunter now.

[SteveA]

2 minutes ago, Sessh said:

Nah, the Orioles didn't score after the first inning and Tillman would have left with the game tied. Let's not forget that he allowed 10 base runners in those six innings as well which is unacceptable. Even without the Pena error, the Orioles still lose by two and Wright still comes in the game and does what he does which is giving up runs.

Tillman isn't the same pitcher anymore and although I do think he has the pitching IQ to survive as a starter, he is no longer (at this point anyway) a TOR pitcher. He has allowed nine or more base runners in four of the six starts he has made since coming back good for a 1.82 WHIP while averaging only 4.6 innings a start. He does get his FB up to 92-93 on occasion, but he has no control over where it goes which likely means it's no longer easy to throw that hard. We see shoulder injuries do this to pitchers all the time and while it's too early to say for sure that it's a permanent change, it's certainly cause for concern. Tillman was at his best when he was routinely touching 93-94 with command and now, he's only managing 89-91 with command.

He hit 94 on back to back pitches, one for strike 3 and one for the first pitch to the next batter.

[Sessh]

3 hours ago, SteveA said:

He hit 94 on back to back pitches, one for strike 3 and one for the first pitch to the next batter.

I assume you mean the second inning with the strikeout to Marrero and the first pitch to Betts; both those pitches were right down the middle. I don't consider that to be showing command especially when it's in a two strike count. He got away with that one to Marrero. Good thing hitting isn't his strong point.

[Nevermore]

3 hours ago, Sessh said:

Nah, the Orioles didn't score after the first inning and Tillman would have left with the game tied. Let's not forget that he allowed 10 base runners in those six innings as well which is unacceptable. Even without the Pena error, the Orioles still lose by two and Wright still comes in the game and does what he does which is giving up runs.

Tillman isn't the same pitcher anymore and although I do think he has the pitching IQ to survive as a starter, he is no longer (at this point anyway) a TOR pitcher. He has allowed nine or more base runners in four of the six starts he has made since coming back good for a 1.82 WHIP while averaging only 4.6 innings a start. He does get his FB up to 92-93 on occasion, but he has no control over where it goes which likely means it's no longer easy to throw that hard. We see shoulder injuries do this to pitchers all the time and while it's too early to say for sure that it's a permanent change, it's certainly cause for concern. Tillman was at his best when he was routinely touching 93-94 with command and now, he's only managing 89-91 with command.

What you say here makes sense . Tillman's shoulder was injured, it healed   but in the process lost some of his velocity.  He can learn to adjust but it might take many months or even years.  For all of our wailing and gnashing of teeth about Ubaldo, this loss of velocity has been his essential problem since he came aboard .

 

[PaulFolk]

17 hours ago, Sessh said:

Nah, the Orioles didn't score after the first inning and Tillman would have left with the game tied. Let's not forget that he allowed 10 base runners in those six innings as well which is unacceptable. Even without the Pena error, the Orioles still lose by two and Wright still comes in the game and does what he does which is giving up runs.

I disagree. I really don't think we would've seen Wright in the game if it had been tied. It would've been some combination of Givens, O'Day, and Brach instead. (In fact Givens was warming up alongside Wright in the bottom of the 6th, in case the Orioles tied it.)

The Orioles still might've lost, but they would've had a better chance and would've had their best relievers on the mound.

[FlipTheBird]

13 hours ago, Nevermore said:

What you say here makes sense . Tillman's shoulder was injured, it healed   but in the process lost some of his velocity.  He can learn to adjust but it might take many months or even years.  For all of our wailing and gnashing of teeth about Ubaldo, this loss of velocity has been his essential problem since he came aboard .

 

Stats show that, thus far, it's been far more command-driven for Tillman than it has been velocity driven. His walks are way up, and he's having a hard time locating his pitches.

From another thread I commented in:

FanGraphs has his average fastball velocity for 2017 listed at 90.5 right now. His average over the course of his career is only 91.3. He's never been a flamethrower, honestly.

The problem has been command more than anything else. His walk rate is up, and he's throwing a lot of hitter-friendly pitches.

He's not missing his heat. His average fastball velocity in 2014 (also known as his career year) was 90.8. The difference was that opponents hit .217 against his fastball that year... they're hitting .260 against it so far this year.

[OFFNY]

o

 

Tillman now has an ERA over 8.00, and a WHIP over 2.000.

 

4 OUTS: ) 3 Groundouts, 1 Strikeout

 

CHRISTOPHER STEVEN TILLMAN )))))) (vs. YANKEES, 6/10)

IP:llllllll 1.33

H:..lll)l  7 )) (3 Home Runs, 1 Double, 3 Singles) ll

R:lllllll) 9

BB:ll.lll3

SO:lll.lll1

Pitches: l)  45 )(21 )Strikes, )24 )Balls)

2017 ERA: l) 8.01

2017 WHIP: l) 2.077  )  30.33 Innings  (63 H/BB)

2017 OPPONENTS BATTING AVG: l) .338  )   45 for 133

 

PITCHES BY INNING

*******************

28 lll(17 llStrikes, .l 11 l.Balls)

17 l.l(41 llStrikes, ll 13 l.Balls) ) *

 

* ) Tillman recorded 1 out before departing in the 2nd inning.

 

o

[allquixotic]

He might be pitching hurt again. Regressed to some of the worst habits he has. You'd only expect that if he were really belonging on the season-ending DL. 

[Finisher]

Pretty sure Tillman pitched through injury in 2015 when he had a 5 ERA. Why a) he thought it was a good idea to pitch through this and why b) we allowed it to happen is truly baffling since it's history repeating itself on an even worse scale. I mean, the guy got shelled at Frederick and he's going to get it done against Boston and New York?

Only consolation is we did not extend this guy.

[panick]

If he hasn't fully recovered from his shoulder problem, and now Roy says he has a hip problem, why doesn't Tillman say he's hurt? 

I realize he's playing for his next contract, but is he so stupid that he doesn't see he's hurting the team with his lousy pitching? He certainly isn't going to recover from injuries if he's pitching every five days, and I would think he's hurting himself as far as his next contract. How much does he think he's going to get if he keeps pitching the way he has this year? Of course I guess Duquette could bid against himself again and give Tillman a ridiculous contract.

 

[DirtyBird]

Need to take him out back and shoot him.

[OFFNY]

o

 

16 OUTS: ) 6 Strikeouts, 4 Groundouts, 3 Flyouts, 2 Lineouts, 1 Popout

 

CHRISTOPHER STEVEN TILLMAN )))))) (vs. WHITE SOX, 6/15)

IP:lllllll. 5.33

H:..llll  11 )) (1 Home Run, 1 Double, 9 Singles) ll

R:lllllll) 5

BB:ll.lll1

SO:llllllll6

Pitches: l)  105 )(75 )Strikes, )30 )Balls)

2017 ERA: l) 8.07

2017 WHIP: l) 2.103  )  35.67 Innings  (75 H/BB)

2017 OPPONENTS BATTING AVG: l) .350  )   56 for 160

 

PITCHES BY INNING

*******************

14 ll.(91 llStrikes, ll 5 l.Balls)

30 l.l(22 llStrikes, ll 8 l.Balls)

24 l.l(16 llStrikes, lll 8 l.Balls)

16 l.l(12 llStrikes, lll 4 ..Balls)

71 l.l(61 l.Strikes, lll 1 lllBalls)

14 llll(10 llStrikes, lll 4 ..Balls) ) *

 

* ) Tillman recorded 1 out before departing in the 6th inning.

 

o

[spiritof66]

On 6/10/2017 at 10:44 PM, panick said:

If he hasn't fully recovered from his shoulder problem, and now Roy says he has a hip problem, why doesn't Tillman say he's hurt? 

I realize he's playing for his next contract, but is he so stupid that he doesn't see he's hurting the team with his lousy pitching? He certainly isn't going to recover from injuries if he's pitching every five days, and I would think he's hurting himself as far as his next contract. How much does he think he's going to get if he keeps pitching the way he has this year? Of course I guess Duquette could bid against himself again and give Tillman a ridiculous contract.

 

I agree that if he's got an injury he should let the team know and let the team decide what to do.

But I'm not sure he's hurt the team much by gutting it out. If he were on the DL, who would get his spot and his starts?

[Sessh]

2 hours ago, OFFNY said:

o

 

16 OUTS: ) 6 Strikeouts, 4 Groundouts, 3 Flyouts, 2 Lineouts, 1 Popout

 

CHRISTOPHER STEVEN TILLMAN )))))) (vs. WHITE SOX, 6/15)

IP:lllllll. 5.33

H:..llll  11 )) (1 Home Run, 1 Double, 9 Singles) ll

R:lllllll) 4

BB:ll.lll1

SO:llllllll6

Pitches: l)  105 )(75 )Strikes, )30 )Balls)

2017 ERA: l) 8.07

2017 WHIP: l) 2.103  )  35.67 Innings  (75 H/BB)

2017 OPPONENTS BATTING AVG: l) .350  )   56 for 160

 

PITCHES BY INNING

*******************

14 ll.(91 llStrikes, ll 5 l.Balls)

30 l.l(22 llStrikes, ll 8 l.Balls)

24 l.l(16 llStrikes, lll 8 l.Balls)

16 l.l(12 llStrikes, lll 4 ..Balls)

71 l.l(61 l.Strikes, lll 1 lllBalls)

14 llll(10 llStrikes, lll 4 ..Balls) ) *

 

* ) Tillman recorded 1 out before departing in the 6th inning.

 

o

Needs a small correction. Tillman was credited with all five runs.