Amazing! One wrong move costs Buck

[eddie83]

Just now, wildcard said:

Not if you have better choices.  Not when Buck leaves Nuno in with the bases loaded.  So Buck brings in Nuno to face lefty Gardener and maybe Headley.   But with two on why Holiday?  Go to Givens there.

They were up 7 with Holliday up. If that is his logic then Nuno never should have been in the game. He was committed to him vs Ellsbury.  

[Dark Helmet]

25 minutes ago, wildcard said:

Then lose.  Its that simple.  The odds of winning gp down vs a powerful offense by using less effective pitchers.  So if you like to lose kind doing it.   A 7 run  lead is not safe in Fenway Park, Yankee Stadium or Camden Yards.   Last year I would have said Rogers Park.

That's easy to say now. 

[eddie83]

5 minutes ago, Tony-OH said:

That's pretty unfair. The Orioles were basically out of bullets once Givens, O'day and Brach were used up. Putting a rookie starter in a tie game in Yankees stadium after they just scored nine straight runs is a recipe for disaster. He's not used to warming up as a reliever and his command was just not there at all. At the end of the day, Nuno and Brach get this loss on their shoulders. They were awful. The Yankees were bringing in Chapman and Betances after they tied it and we had a bunch of rookies left. 

I'm not sure Aquino will have long term success in the major leagues or not yet, but last night was no way to judged that.

He was in an impossible spot for him. I am not down on him because of last night. His stuff just doesn't impress me. He better have a ton of deception. 

[Dark Helmet]

19 minutes ago, Tony-OH said:

That's pretty unfair. The Orioles were basically out of bullets once Givens, O'day and Brach were used up. Putting a rookie starter in a tie game in Yankees stadium after they just scored nine straight runs is a recipe for disaster. He's not used to warming up as a reliever and his command was just not there at all. At the end of the day, Nuno and Brach get this loss on their shoulders. They were awful. The Yankees were bringing in Chapman and Betances after they tied it and we had a bunch of rookies left. 

I'm not sure Aquino will have long term success in the major leagues or not yet, but last night was no way to judged that.

I don't mean just last night. I agree with you, Buck had no choice to use Aquino. I'm talking about Aquino in general. I just don't see the stuff or command to be successful. I don't blame Aquino. 

I'm  sure up 7 runs in the 7th, Brach probably assumed he was going to have a night off. I wonder how much that affected him? Just seemed like the intensity wasn't there. I know these guys are major leaguers and it shouldn't be an issue. But I wonder if it does.

[wildcard]

6 minutes ago, Frobby said:

I disagree with your opinion.    If a manager can't use the lesser part of his bullpen in a game like that, then his bullpen is in serious trouble.   Nuno has pitched well of late and I have ZERO problem with Buck using him there.   It just didn't work out.     

And you think the O's pen is not in serious trouble?  Britton is out. Brach throw 30 pitches last night.  Ubaldo is not likely to last that long. So they have O'Day for one inning,  Givens, Hart, Nuno  and Asher against a team that is red hot.   And now they are coming off a loss. 

If he have went right to Givens they would probably has won and if they loss today it would not have been as bad.  I believe the pen is in trouble right now because Buck didn't in go with his best to win the game last night against a powerful offense.

[wildcard]

13 minutes ago, eddie83 said:

Buck is many things, he is not a manager accused of taking a game for granted. If anything he gets criticized for doing the opposite. You continue to not addre the circumstances surrounding this game. 

I am address the circimstances.  Surging team in Yankee Stadium.  That was the circumstances.

[wildcard]

7 minutes ago, eddie83 said:

They were up 7 with Holliday up. If that is his logic then Nuno never should have been in the game. He was committed to him vs Ellsbury.  

You say it.

[eddie83]

I just looked at baseball-ref. I I read it correctly since 2011 the biggest lead the Orioles have blown had been 6 runs in 2011. 

2012. 4 runs 

2013.  5 runs 

2014.  5 runs

2015. 4 runs 

2016.  4 runs 

2017. 8 runs. 

 

What we saw last night has never happened under Buck.  

[Dark Helmet]

The only issue I do still have with Buck from last night, is letting Gausman start the 7th. Some RP don't do well coming in during an inning. Givens has had that issue...Maybe Nuno does too. 

[wildcard]

9 minutes ago, Dark Helmet said:

That's easy to say now. 

This is a valid point.   Its not really whether I am right or not.  Its should have Buck with his experience and knowledge been comfortable enough to go to Nuno vs the Yankee in Yankee stadium and leaving him in to given up 3 or 4 runs?  We know now he shouldn't have.   Should Buck have seen that he was putting the lead in danger by not going with his best.   Maybe I am expecting more of Buck then I should.

[eddie83]

4 minutes ago, wildcard said:

You say it.

So you want Givens who has issues vs lefties right there? If Nuno does his job we see one of the big 3 in the 8th and maybe an Asher/ Aquino in the 9th. The same pitcher that stunk last night saved the day just 4 days ago vs Tampa. He was good enough that day. The grand slam was a lefty hitter. His role is to get those hitters out. 

 

[Dark Helmet]

15 minutes ago, wildcard said:

This is a valid point.   Its not really whether I am right or not.  Its should have Buck with his experience and knowledge been comfortable enough to go to Nuno vs the Yankee in Yankee stadium and leaving him in to given up 3 or 4 runs?  We know now he shouldn't have.   Should Buck have seen that he was putting the lead in danger by not going with his best.   Maybe I am expecting more of Buck then I should.

It was a tough loss...very touch. Now I see he has Hardy batting 6th today and Schoop 8th. Other than not having two black holes on offense (Hardy and Joseph) batting back to back, I don't get it. Schoops been hot. Hardy hasn't hit in 3 years.

[eddie83]

4 minutes ago, wildcard said:

This is a valid point.   Its not really whether I am right or not.  Its should have Buck with his experience and knowledge been comfortable enough to go to Nuno vs the Yankee in Yankee stadium and leaving him in to given up 3 or 4 runs?  We know now he shouldn't have.   Should Buck have seen that he was putting the lead in danger by not going with his best.   Maybe I am expecting more of Buck then I should.

You want Givens vs Gardner, Headley and Ellsbury? That is a great matchup for him? 

[thezeroes]

10 minutes ago, wildcard said:

Buck has been Britton, Brach, O"Day and Hart in games where the team is ahead.  He had been using the other relievers in games where the O's were behind or the above pitchers have pitched two days in a row.   Buck took a different path then his normal by using Nuno while the O's were ahead. And it turned out badly.

It was a SEVEN run lead after the sixth inning.  Show me the games he has used Brach, O'Day, Hart and Britton with a SEVEN run lead into the seventh inning, please.

[OFFNY]

59 minutes ago, wildcard said:

 

It was obvious not a blowout. It was a game vs the surging Yankees in Yankee Stadium.

 

 

57 minutes ago, Dark Helmet said:

 

11-4 in the 7th is usually a blowout.

 

o

 

Yes, it is.

After Trumbo's grand slam put the Orioles up by a score of 9-1 in the top of the 6th inning, I was thinking that when I got home from the game, I would enjoy bumping the It's Nice to Have a Laugher thread.

One inning later, when the Orioles answered the Yankees' 3-run 6th with a 2-run 7th, I still thought that I would be bumping the thread.

 

The game was a blowout at both of those points. It's very rare that any team comes back from such deficits, regardless of whether or not the team that is behind has been surging, which is why it is being discussed as extensively as it is currently being. Even the OP's description in his thread title with the word "Amazing" followed by an explanation point would lend credence to the notion that the game was expected by everyone (Orioles fans AND Yankee fans) to wind up being a blowout. If one bad move was made by Showalter in a close game in which neither team was up by a lot of runs at any point in the game, it wouldn't be amazing, it would be just another close loss with some posters questioning Showalter's decision(s.)

 

o