Do We Sell?

[wildbillhiccup]

On 6/11/2017 at 11:59 AM, RZNJ said:

Britton,  if healthy,  to the Nationals, for Victor Robles, top ten pitching prospect, and bullpen arm like Koda Glover.

Machado to Cubs for Addison Russell,  Candelario, etc.

I like both of these ideas. The Nats deal seems perfect, considering their desire for a stud closer. We just need Britton to come back before they trade for someone else. 

I also think Manny to the Mets for a package based around Rosario might have some potential...

Also, any possibilities with the Brewers? Their minor league system is LOADED. 

[FlipTheBird]

23 minutes ago, birdwatcher55 said:

 if Duquette was in charge of a rebuild. It would be catastrophic.

Do you have any proof of this?

Arguing that Duquette wouldn't want to rebuild is somewhat legitimate.

Saying he couldn't do it if tasked with it has no basis.

[TouchemAll]

OK if below .500 at the trade deadline sell, I really think this current crew had it's high water mark, and I don't see how they can fix the starting pitching mess other then by some miracle they all pick it back up.

and what I think is worthless unless we're out of all possible playoff contention the O's won't sell anybody.

[esmd]

Machado is really the only truly valuable piece.  Davis isn't going anywhere, and I'd keep Trumbo since he's a proven bat that can help them transition through this "reloading period" so to speak.  Might be able to get something halfway decent for Seth Smith from a playoff contender (maybe a marginal A or AA prospect).  I doubt Kim brings much.  I'm not trading Jones, Schoop, Mancini, Davis, Trumbo, Castillo, or any of the pitchers.  Britton I would consider, but obviously that would have to wait until the offseason and him to show in the 2nd half that he's healthy.  You can't move him in July.

[spiritof66]

Peter Angelos will be 87 in a few weeks. Here's what I am guessing he believes:

• This team has a few very good players who should be able to contribute a lot in the next 2-3 years. To build a winner during that short term, I have agreed to pay some of those players a lot of money (too much money, in a few cases).
• We've hit a rough patch. Some of that has to do with injuries, and some of it is just the way things ebb and flow during a season. But we are still in it, and when our offense heats up and we get Britton back we should be right there, competing for a WC spot if not the division. We have a great manager, and he'll find a way to get us there.
• To keep the ML payroll as high as it is, I have not made the kind of investment in a Latin America program that others have made. I'm not sure how much building that infrastructure would cost, how long it would take to produce ML talent, or how successful we would be as latecomers.
• We have some very good prospects who may be able help very soon. (Look at Mancini. Nobody thought he could be as productive as he's been. That's why we signed Trumbo.)

How do you sell that almost-87 year old guy on a rebuilding process that pretty much ensures an inability to compete with the RS, NYYs and BJs, and thus a fourth- or fifth-place finish, for the next three to ten years? 

[24fps]

As long as PA is alive, lucid and in possession of decision-making power over the Orioles, I don't believe another rebuild will ever take place.  IMO it's far more likely that Duquette willl play out the string and move on, Showalter will decide if he's had enough sometime in 2018, and the core of the team as it currently stands will remain intact for the foreseeable future.  Manny will be gone for pennies on the dollar and the team will sink into mediocrity for an extended period.  

If it were up to me, I would be selling at the AS break if the team continues to look like it has over the last month or so, Pittsburgh games notwithstanding.

[Frobby]

6 minutes ago, esmd said:

Britton I would consider, but obviously that would have to wait until the offseason and him to show in the 2nd half that he's healthy.  You can't move him in July.

I wouldn't be too sure of that.   It depends how soon he gets back and how he performs once he returns.     He's scheduled to begin a rehab assignment on June  19, so I'd assume he's scheduled to be back in early July.    That's enough time for teams to see what he's got.    

[vab]

I could see a piece or two moving at the deadline if this collapse continues but not some wholesale dismantling. That type of thing should probably wait until the offseason anyway since it should probably involve hiring a new GM or maybe moving Buck in there. Not the type of thing they can do before the trade deadline.

[sportsfan8703]

We're wasting a 163 million payroll.  

Ubaldo- 13.5 

Kim- 4.2

Nuno- 1.2

Flaherty- 1.8

That's 20.7 million right there for players not contributing at all.  Then you have 

Hardy- 14 

O'day- 7

Tillman- 10

Britton- 11.4

That's another 42 million for players that are hurt or just done.  

So we have 60 million in players that are giving us nothing or negative value.  

 

[FlipTheBird]

3 minutes ago, sportsfan8703 said:

We're wasting a 163 million payroll.  

Ubaldo- 13.5 

Kim- 4.2

Nuno- 1.2

Flaherty- 1.8

That's 20.7 million right there for players not contributing at all.  Then you have 

Hardy- 14 

O'day- 7

Tillman- 10

Britton- 11.4

That's another 42 million for players that are hurt or just done.  

So we have 60 million in players that are giving us nothing or negative value.  

 

The O's should have just known that Tillman and Britton were going to get hurt?

I'm not sure what point you're trying to make.

[CheeryO]

20 hours ago, eddie83 said:

Are those teams trading those players? He turns 25 in July, he is younger than Judge.  

I wasn't suggesting the O's actually try and trade Manny for Lindor, Seager or Correa.  Not that Cleveland, Houston or LA would be dumb enough to  do that trade anyway.  As far as a trade is concerned, Manny's age isn't really important unless he's traded to a team that thinks it can re-sign him.  But those might be the only teams that might give up anything of value for a "superstar" who is having a down year.  Why would a team that would never have a shot at re-signing Manny give up of anything of value for him the way he's currently hitting?  Teams that could use him now but could never afford to re-sign him  -- like the Brewers, Indians, Twins and maybe the Rockies and DBacks -- couldn't be justified in giving up much for him the way he's currently hitting.  If he was hitting like he hit the past two years they'd be all over him.  If the O's traded him now they'd might get the best deals from the Red Sox or Yankees -- the horror!

[CheeryO]

2 hours ago, birdwatcher55 said:

 if Duquette was in charge of a rebuild. It would be catastrophic.

Duquette was the force behind the initial part of the Red Sox rebuild.  I agree Duquette has his flaws but the trades he made as O's GM are nothing like a GM would make during a rebuild. 

[esmd]

1. Gausman

2. Bundy

3. Tillman?

4. Wright/Asher?

5. ?

RP:  Wright?

RP:  Verrett?

RP:  Asher?

RP:  Givens

RP:  O'Day

SU:  Brach

Closer:  Britton

C: Castillo

1B:  Davis

2B:  Schoop

SS:  Ruben Tejada

3B:  Todd Frazier/Mike Moustakas?

LF:  Rickard

CF:  Jones

RF:  Mancini

DH:  Trumbo

Bench 1:  Joseph

Bench 2: 

Bench 3: 

Bench 4: 

Looking at rough projections for next season, assuming we hold onto Britton, we're going to need to use Machado to replentish the organization.  They need a 4 or 5 prospect deal, IMO, with at least two of those prospects being starting pitchers.  It's a lot easier to find relievers, and some of the young pitchers in the organization that have faltered as starters (i.e. Mike Wright, Asher) might find success in the 'pen.  If they can sign a guy like Moustakas or Frazier to play 3B and a LH OFer to platoon with Rickard, the lineup is pretty set.  I think Tejada is probably your everyday SS next year.  I'd bring Tillman back on a 1 year deal if they can get him cheap.  Then they just need to fill out the bench.  The rotation, as always, is the question.  They absolutely must get at least 2 top SP prospects as a part of the Machado deal.  We all know they're not going to sign a FA SP for multiple years, not after Ubaldo.

[webbrick2010]

1 minute ago, esmd said:

1. Gausman

2. Bundy

3. Tillman?

4. Wright/Asher?

5. ?

RP:  Wright?

RP:  Verrett?

RP:  Asher?

RP:  Givens

RP:  O'Day

SU:  Brach

Closer:  Britton

C: Castillo

1B:  Davis

2B:  Schoop

SS:  Ruben Tejada

3B:  Todd Frazier/Mike Moustakas?

LF:  Rickard

CF:  Jones

RF:  Mancini

DH:  Trumbo

Bench 1:  Joseph

Bench 2: 

Bench 3: 

Bench 4: 

Looking at rough projections for next season, assuming we hold onto Britton, we're going to need to use Machado to replentish the organization.  They need a 4 or 5 prospect deal, IMO, with at least two of those prospects being starting pitchers.  It's a lot easier to find relievers, and some of the young pitchers in the organization that have faltered as starters (i.e. Mike Wright, Asher) might find success in the 'pen.  If they can sign a guy like Moustakas or Frazier to play 3B and a LH OFer to platoon with Rickard, the lineup is pretty set.  I think Tejada is probably your everyday SS next year.  I'd bring Tillman back on a 1 year deal if they can get him cheap.  Then they just need to fill out the bench.  The rotation, as always, is the question.  They absolutely must get at least 2 top SP prospects as a part of the Machado deal.  We all know they're not going to sign a FA SP for multiple years, not after Ubaldo.

Interesting...

Mancini doesn't have the arm to play RF, neither does Rickard

Jones is a  bad CF'er

Need to sign a CF'er and move Jones to RF, Mancini in LF

Doesn't make sense to waste more money on past prime players like Frazier or Moustakis... no way they would sign with the O's anyhow.

[ArtVanDelay]

46 minutes ago, FlipTheBird said:

The O's should have just known that Tillman and Britton were going to get hurt?

I'm not sure what point you're trying to make.

Many people believe that Britton should've been traded during the offseason when his value was in the stratosphere.