Jones To Talk With Ownership In Offseason

[Can_of_corn]

2 minutes ago, thezeroes said:

Exactly.  Nor should we, except for someone that is running a gossip page somewhere.

I'd still buy a tell-all about the Orioles under Angelos' ownership.

[thezeroes]

Just now, Can_of_corn said:

I'd still buy a tell-all about the Orioles under Angelos' ownership.

And I would not.

[Ohfan67]

23 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

How else would you see it?  Mind you I was using the military equivalents since my prior service was mentioned.

Jones is possibly bypassing Buck and almost certainly bypassing Dan to talk to the owner directly. 

If I am Dan than the fact that someone went by me to convince ownership to give Davis that idiotic contact yes I would be worried that Jones will talk Angelos into an extension.

Well if my contract wasn't up in a year anyway I'd be worried.  As is, I'd be working on my resume.

. I mentioned how interaction across levels is strongly encouraged in many organizations, but there’s a pretty formalized process.  this is encouraged in academics, large business organizations, etc. The military is an extremely linear organization for good reasons, but they often pay the price/the trade-off for that structure when leadership loses touch with reality, when lower levels feel like higher leadership doesn’t care about them or their fate, etc. Out of touch leadership is almost always bad leadership. Adam is the team captain, regardless of the lack of a formal designation. Markakis was before. They both have had lunch with Angelos. At the very least it lets the team captain know that the owner cares. I think Markakis was truly concerned that ownership didn’t care about the players or winning at one point. The military, which I brought up, is probably not a good comparison. I think organizations with highly paid, highly sought after employees and the creative output of those people is key to the organizations success are better examples in some ways. You can’t hammer your best players/employees and expect to attract premium talent. In many organizations You also can’t completely cut off their access to higher levels and expect to attract them.  Maybe MLB falls in between. BTW, in organizations with less linear structure lower levels talking to higher levels is just a known part of the landscape you have to handle in management and there are positives and negatives about maneuvering around that landscape  I am forced to live in that world...every decision is going to be critiqued from above and below and they communicate.  

 

That said it is is an odd arrangement and that’s a direct result of Angelos. There’s Brady and apparently several others that are not really part of a formal chain of command. The organizational disfunction is all on Angelos. And in that weird structure I think his lunch with Adam is pretty meaningless. Adam is the least of DD authority issues IMO. 

[Can_of_corn]

Quote

You also can’t completely cut off their access to higher levels and expect to attract them

That doesn't happen in the Military, at least not from my experience.  You have a chain of command, you use it.  If you still have issues there are mechanisms in place outside the Chain. 

I had an issue with my Battery CO in Germany, I went to EO (They didn't help either but that's not the point).  I could have (and should have) taken the issue up with the Chaplain or with Brigade legal services.  

To me the issue isn't Jones talking with ownership, it is the idea of Jones bypassing Dan and possibly Buck to talk with ownership.

 

[spiritof66]

1 hour ago, Ohfan67 said:

.  .  .

That said it is is an odd arrangement and that’s a direct result of Angelos. There’s Brady and apparently several others that are not really part of a formal chain of command. The organizational disfunction is all on Angelos. And in that weird structure I think his lunch with Adam is pretty meaningless. Adam is the least of DD authority issues IMO. 

.  .  .

IMO, the Orioles have been and continue to be hampered by two related factors: (1) overemphasis on short-term success at the cost of building a franchise that will be able to compete in the AL East beyond that window, and (2) emotional attachment and loyalty to "our guys," the core corps of players who helped the team to its recent winning seasons and post-season appearances. I have no doubt that both these circumstances have driven the owner's involvement in personnel decisions (Davis, O'Day, Machado) as well as the treatment of the minor league system, scouting and non-use of international slots. The second seems to be a key factor for Buck, to the point where he sees Tillman as part of next year's starting rotation. I don't know where Duquette is; he has been executing an all-in in 2017/18 approach, but there are times when he seems to be doing that only because that's what he's been told to do.

I agree that Adam's meeting with the owner is not likely to be a big deal. But Adam will be promoting a position that the organization should be looking at very skeptically at this point, and at the very least he will reinforce what the owner wants to hear: that  the Orioles should focus on building a team that can contend next year. I don't think that's a good thing. 

[Enjoy Terror]

3 minutes ago, birdwatcher55 said:

Can he talk to Ravens' management while he's at it? This is pathetic.

So far a tough year for the birds. 

[mrbig1]

Does anyone believe that Adam is sick of being a Oriole?

[Tx Oriole]

35 minutes ago, mrbig1 said:

Does anyone believe that Adam is sick of being a Oriole?

I don't. Just because has talked to the owner and or management doesn't mean squat to me. I don't won't to make a mountain out of an ant mound. 

[TonySoprano]

Quote

Davis said he’s willing to meet with managing partner Peter G. Angelos, as center fielder Adam Jones has vowed to do again over dinner, and offer his input on what needs to be done.

“Absolutely, I’m always open to sitting down with Peter and talking about the future of the team, the expectations, the goals, the concerns,” Davis said. “I’m 100 percent in on that. I think the more you have those discussions, the more open about what you expect and what you want to see happen, the better it is for the team.

“There’s a lot going on. I would welcome that.”

http://www.masnsports.com/school-of-roch/2017/10/chris-davis-on-his-extremely-frustrating-season.html

[Tx Oriole]

2 hours ago, Can_of_corn said:

That doesn't happen in the Military, at least not from my experience.  You have a chain of command, you use it.  If you still have issues there are mechanisms in place outside the Chain. 

I had an issue with my Battery CO in Germany, I went to EO (They didn't help either but that's not the point).  I could have (and should have) taken the issue up with the Chaplain or with Brigade legal services.  

To me the issue isn't Jones talking with ownership, it is the idea of Jones bypassing Dan and possibly Buck to talk with ownership.

 

I understand where you are coming from. There has to be a chain of command. But the O's are dysfunctional. With Angelos hiring Buck before hiring a GM is so strange to me. Now I don't think AJ doing this is a cause of alarm. Can I didn't realize you had been in the military. I do say thank you for your service. I say that to all who have served. 

 

 

[Can_of_corn]

Just now, Tx Oriole said:

I understand where you are coming from. There has to be a chain of command. But the O's are dysfunctional. With Angelos hiring Buck before hiring a GM is so strange to me. Now I don't think AJ doing this is a cause of alarm. Can I didn't realize you had been in the military. I do say thank you for your service. I say that to all who have served. 

 

 

Thanks and I don't think it is a cause for alarm either.  Just don't think it is appropriate and I blame Angelos for letting it happen.

[Frobby]

1 minute ago, Tx Oriole said:

I understand where you are coming from. There has to be a chain of command. But the O's are dysfunctional. With Angelos hiring Buck before hiring a GM is so strange to me. 

What's strange about it?   Buck was signed to a multi-year deal more than a year before Duquette replaced MacPhail.    It's not like the GM job was open at the time.

[Tx Oriole]

7 minutes ago, Frobby said:

What's strange about it?   Buck was signed to a multi-year deal more than a year before Duquette replaced MacPhail.    It's not like the GM job was open at the time.

I realize that. I thought Angelos was hiring a manager before a GM. 

[Tx Oriole]

Just now, Tx Oriole said:

I realize that. I thought Angelos was hiring a manager before a GM. 

Didn't realize I mean.

[Ohfan67]

4 hours ago, Can_of_corn said:

That doesn't happen in the Military, at least not from my experience.  You have a chain of command, you use it.  If you still have issues there are mechanisms in place outside the Chain. 

I had an issue with my Battery CO in Germany, I went to EO (They didn't help either but that's not the point).  I could have (and should have) taken the issue up with the Chaplain or with Brigade legal services.  

To me the issue isn't Jones talking with ownership, it is the idea of Jones bypassing Dan and possibly Buck to talk with ownership.

 

Your statement above quoted my statement about in some organizations you can't cut certain types of employees totally off from higher level decision makers and attract the best people. I understand that's not the way the military works for the most part and I understand why that's necessary. But the linear organization and immediate boss primacy is part of the reason why some people that are interested in the military choose not to join and it is one of the reasons that some lower level officers leave the military. Again, I understand why that structure is necessary in the military, but it does preclude some talented people from joining or staying. That said, the US military doesn't compete with another military for "employees". The Orioles do compete for employees, especially the best employees. That's a huge difference.

 

p.s. I know you know all this...just chatting.