Should the Orioles sign Andrew Cashner and Jason Vargas?

[MDtransplant757]

2 minutes ago, Frobby said:

Isn’t that the exact opposite of how FIP supposedly works?     The whole point of FIP is to be fielding independent.    A FIP much higher than his ERA suggests he benefitted from above average fielding, not the opposite.   

I had someone explain this to me yesterday. Yeah, my bad. 

[POR]

On 11/8/2017 at 12:44 AM, MDtransplant757 said:

Andrew Cashner, sure. His FIP was outragous compared to his ERA, but I think a good chunk of that is poor defensive play this year in Texas. Vargas, I’ll put it to you this way. 

 

 

[esmd]

IMO, both would be an improvement over Miley, Tillman, and Ubaldo.  I'm just not sure how much of an improvement they'd be.  I'm more bullish on Vargas than I am on Cashner. 

[wildbillhiccup]

I'm lukewarm on Cashner and a hard no on Vargas. I don't think he's any better than Miley. And to say that he's better than Tillman or Jimenenz means nothing. They were arguably two of the worst pitchers in baseball last season. I would be an upgrade over them!

[jamalshw]

I'm not overly excited about either option. To me, this is my plan A:

Alex Cobb - 4/$54M

Tyler Chatwood - 3/$21M

Jon Jay - 2/$15M

I don't know if any of these offers get it done. I'd accept Cashner or Vargas (provided the deal is low enough and 1 year) in the second starter spot IF Chatwood or Jaime Garcia (my plan B) fall through.

NOTE: Outside of these moves, I'd look to add a utility infielder and plenty of pitching depth with some options to compete with Castro for the fifth SP spot.

[Aristotelian]

6 minutes ago, jamalshw said:

I'm not overly excited about either option. To me, this is my plan A:

Alex Cobb - 4/$54M

Tyler Chatwood - 3/$21M

Jon Jay - 2/$15M

I don't know if any of these offers get it done. I'd accept Cashner or Vargas (provided the deal is low enough and 1 year) in the second starter spot IF Chatwood or Jaime Garcia (my plan B) fall through.

NOTE: Outside of these moves, I'd look to add a utility infielder and plenty of pitching depth with some options to compete with Castro for the fifth SP spot.

If that is the case - and I agree it likely is - then just get it over with and trade Manny. We were a last place team and that is not nearly enough to turn us around. 

[Frobby]

5 hours ago, RZNJ said:

Both guys are a crapshoot and I think Cashner would probably suck.  However,  I'd take a crapshoot on a 1 year contract for either guy.   I'm against the multi year crapshoots.  Would rather take the cheapy crapshoots like Rich Hill from a few years ago.  Just throw stuff against the wall.  Interesting,  but cheap stuff.

Some team will give Cashner a multi-year deal.    Hopefully it won’t be us.

[Frobby]

1 minute ago, Aristotelian said:

If that is the case - and I agree it likely is - then just get it over with and trade Manny. We were a last place team and that is not nearly enough to turn us around. 

You don’t think that adding Cobb and Chatwood would be enough to upgrade the pitching?   (I assume they’d also bring in some depth pieces similar to last year.)   I’d be really happy with that offseason.

[Number5]

3 minutes ago, jamalshw said:

I'm not overly excited about either option. To me, this is my plan A:

Alex Cobb - 4/$54M

Tyler Chatwood - 3/$21M

Jon Jay - 2/$15M

I don't know if any of these offers get it done. I'd accept Cashner or Vargas (provided the deal is low enough and 1 year) in the second starter spot IF Chatwood or Jaime Garcia (my plan B) fall through.

NOTE: Outside of these moves, I'd look to add a utility infielder and plenty of pitching depth with some options to compete with Castro for the fifth SP spot.

I like Cobb and 4/$54 might do it, but why not get a second pitcher that might actually be an improvement over what we had?

If the orioles sign Chatwood, Vargas, or Cashner, I'm just not feeling like they would do a whole lot better than Tillman, Jimenez, and Miley.  Hey, I would root for them if they were Orioles and hope that they could end up proving me wrong, but none of those three excite me at all.  Lynn would give us a lot more for not a whole lot more money than those guys, IMO.  If the budget is tight, I'd rather pass on signing Jay and get the second difference-making pitcher.

[Aristotelian]

27 minutes ago, Frobby said:

You don’t think that adding Cobb and Chatwood would be enough to upgrade the pitching?   (I assume they’d also bring in some depth pieces similar to last year.)   I’d be really happy with that offseason.

Chatwood doesn't look like an upgrade to me when I see 4.7 BB/9, 7.3 K/9, 4.69 ERA. What's to like there?

Cobb would be an upgrade for sure but I don't think one guy is enough to fix all that went wrong last year, and it's not like he's Kershaw or an upgrade on that level.

 

[Number5]

3 minutes ago, Aristotelian said:

Chatwood doesn't look like an upgrade to me when I see 4.7 BB/9, 7.3 K/9, 4.69 ERA. What's to like there?

Cobb would be an upgrade for sure but I don't think one guy is enough to fix all that went wrong last year, and it's not like he's Kershaw or an upgrade on that level.

 

I agree.  I think there is a tendency to overcompensate for pitching in Coors.  Chatwood had a 6 ERA there.  We can't completely overlook that and presume that he will pitch in the AL and at Camden Yards the way he did only in away games in pitchers parks in the NL, IMO.  Totally agree on the walks.  I'm just not seeing him as an answer for us.

[Frobby]

37 minutes ago, Number5 said:

I agree.  I think there is a tendency to overcompensate for pitching in Coors.  Chatwood had a 6 ERA there.  We can't completely overlook that and presume that he will pitch in the AL and at Camden Yards the way he did only in away games in pitchers parks in the NL, IMO.  Totally agree on the walks.  I'm just not seeing him as an answer for us.

I just look at his ERA+, 125 and 107 the last two years.    That’s not overcompensating for Coors, that’s a rational compensation for Coors.

[Number5]

Not seeing the love.  Seems pedestrian to me and walks way too many hitters.  If the Orioles sign him, I'll be behind him all the way, and hope he proves me wrong.  For the relatively small money difference, I'd rather they go after a guy that would more likely be a genuine #3 pitcher, though.

[El Gordo]

53 minutes ago, Number5 said:

Not seeing the love.  Seems pedestrian to me and walks way too many hitters.  If the Orioles sign him, I'll be behind him all the way, and hope he proves me wrong.  For the relatively small money difference, I'd rather they go after a guy that would more likely be a genuine #3 pitcher, though.

I'm not for Chatwood as our top FA SP sign, If he's #2 or #3 then I'm OK with him. H'es a better risk than Vargas, Cashner, or Tillman IMO.

[esmd]

I don't think 4/$54M comes anywhere close to getting Cobb.  If they somehow signed him for that, I'd dance a freaking jig.  He's going to get something similar to what Chen got, IMO.