Dan plays the waiting game again

[eddie83]

24 minutes ago, tntoriole said:

Dan has to own picking Ubaldo and also not picking Ervin Santana...that is not on the owner...he has to own picking Gallardo, he has to own not extending Nick, which led to Travis Snider, which led to losing Stephen Brault, then Snider being inept led to Parra which meant losing Zach Davies.   Then he chooses to save money by cutting a serviceable veteran pitcher in Miggy Gonzalez for no return at all, except 5 million to spend on Wade Miley and then choosing Tyler Wilson and Mike Wright instead thinking this is what pennant contenders with already marginal pitching should do. 

I am sorry but Dan’s choices in many of his trades and his offseason pitching signings later in his tenure have been awful, no matter the limitations from ownership.  And during a time when even a bit better starting pitching would have gotten us a long way from 2015-2017. 

None of us can assume that so and so would want to play for a certain team. We can play the trickle down theory in other ways. If Buck and Adair don’t screw Jake up he never gets dealt. Ubaldo isn’t signed, etc, etc. Maybe Bud Norris isn’t traded for. 

This is the AL East. Being an Orioles GM is the equivalent of being an SEC football coach with 20% fewer scholarships and weaker facilities and being expected to beat out Nick Saban.  

It is entirely possible someone can be better than Dan has been, the bigger issues though are beyond the GM’s control. Theo went to the Cubs because he believed in the ownership and they are a big market. You aren’t attracting top level GM’s to deal with the way the franchise operates.  

[tntoriole]

13 minutes ago, eddie83 said:

None of us can assume that so and so would want to play for a certain team. We can play the trickle down theory in other ways. If Buck and Adair don’t screw Jake up he never gets dealt. Ubaldo isn’t signed, etc, etc. Maybe Bud Norris isn’t traded for. 

This is the AL East. Being an Orioles GM is the equivalent of being an SEC football coach with 20% fewer scholarships and weaker facilities and being expected to beat out Nick Saban.  

It is entirely possible someone can be better than Dan has been, the bigger issues though are beyond the GM’s control. Theo went to the Cubs because he believed in the ownership and they are a big market. You aren’t attracting top level GM’s to deal with the way the franchise operates.  

In all the situations I mentioned, Dan had nearly equivalent different choices and made his choice...it seems that for some on this board if it goes well then it is Dan doing great despite terrible ownership and if the choice turns out terrible or another choice is not made, then it is blamed on the player not wanting to play for ownership or owner not spending enough, etc. .pretty neat PR....take the credit for the wins and let ownership indirectly take the heat when finishing last.   If they finish last again, then Dan should be fired by any owner, even ours. 

 

[eddie83]

9 minutes ago, tntoriole said:

In all the situations I mentioned, Dan had nearly equivalent different choices and made his choice...it seems that for some on this board if it goes well then it is Dan doing great despite terrible ownership and if the choice turns out terrible or another choice is not made, then it is blamed on the player not wanting to play for ownership or owner not spending enough, etc. .pretty neat PR....take the credit for the wins and let ownership indirectly take the heat when finishing last.   If they finish last again, then Dan should be fired by any owner, even ours. 

 

Once again Dan deserves criticism. I ripped Dan for the corner OF debacle in 2015. I think starting pitching is a whole other issue.  How do any of us know who does or doesn’t want to play for a team? This isn’t fantasy baseball, the player has a choice. Hellickson said the second he was here how hard the East is. We know for a fact Santana would have pitched here? 

At the end of the day you are asking someone to compete against Boston and NY with one arm tied behind their back. I listened for about 20 minutes to the Brett Hollander show the other night. He had DD on but I missed that part. I did hear Brett say how Dan once again brought up how a decision has to be made about Manny. In Hollander’s view Dan is basically saying that ownership needs to decide what they want to do. Ed Encina was on with him. He said that he doesn’t think the organization has any idea what it really will take to keep Manny. Last year some people wanted Dan to deal Manny. A better ran organization would have already dealt with this by now. 

I am not sure from where but Brett played a clip from Jim Palmer. He talked about how the Orioles only have 3/4 pro scouts while most have 10-15. He talked about how that helps making deals, like a deal  for Britton. 

Nobody is winning in the long term in this division operating how we do. 

[tntoriole]

2 minutes ago, eddie83 said:

Once again Dan deserves criticism. I ripped Dan for the corner OF debacle in 2015. I think starting pitching is a whole other issue.  How do any of us know who does or doesn’t want to play for a team? This isn’t fantasy baseball, the player has a choice. Hellickson said the second he was here how hard the East is. We know for a fact Santana would have pitched here? 

At the end of the day you are asking someone to compete against Boston and NY with one arm tied behind their back. I listened for about 20 minutes to the Brett Hollander show the other night. He had DD on but I missed that part. I did hear Brett say how Dan once again brought up how a decision has to be made about Manny. In Hollander’s view Dan is basically saying that ownership needs to decide what they want to do. Ed Encina was on with him. He said that he doesn’t think the organization has any idea what it really will take to keep Manny. Last year some people wanted Dan to deal Manny. A better ran organization would have already dealt with this by now. 

I am not sure from where but Brett played a clip from Jim Palmer. He talked about how the Orioles only have 3/4 pro scouts while most have 10-15. He talked about how that helps making deals, like a deal  for Britton. 

Nobody is winning in the long term in this division operating how we do. 

Auburn says hello to all the Nick Saban is unbeatable groupies... Yes, we are not Boston or NY...did Dan somehow not know this when he signed on?  I am sorry but I am not convinced that the old man, who I have blamed for plenty, is solely and completely responsible for trading for Parra and not keeping Miggy Gonzalez.  Those two choices alone would have kept Zach Davies and Miggy Gonzalez in our rotation for these last seasons and probably gotten us much farther towards the postseason than Ubaldo and Gallardo and Miley. 

And I heard Dan say that about Manny...as if he was just some guy like us posting on this  board....”Gee, ownership should do something about that.  I mean I have no thoughts really about whether the organization should or shouldn’t, but somebody should really decide that.”       Good Lord.  lol

[tntoriole]

17 minutes ago, eddie83 said:

Once again Dan deserves criticism. I ripped Dan for the corner OF debacle in 2015. I think starting pitching is a whole other issue.  How do any of us know who does or doesn’t want to play for a team? This isn’t fantasy baseball, the player has a choice. Hellickson said the second he was here how hard the East is. We know for a fact Santana would have pitched here? 

At the end of the day you are asking someone to compete against Boston and NY with one arm tied behind their back. I listened for about 20 minutes to the Brett Hollander show the other night. He had DD on but I missed that part. I did hear Brett say how Dan once again brought up how a decision has to be made about Manny. In Hollander’s view Dan is basically saying that ownership needs to decide what they want to do. Ed Encina was on with him. He said that he doesn’t think the organization has any idea what it really will take to keep Manny. Last year some people wanted Dan to deal Manny. A better ran organization would have already dealt with this by now. 

I am not sure from where but Brett played a clip from Jim Palmer. He talked about how the Orioles only have 3/4 pro scouts while most have 10-15. He talked about how that helps making deals, like a deal  for Britton. 

Nobody is winning in the long term in this division operating how we do. 

http://www.baltimoresun.com/sports/orioles/blog/bal-bs-sp-orioles-observations-0524-20170523-story.html

 

 

[eddie83]

16 minutes ago, tntoriole said:

Auburn says hello to all the Nick Saban is unbeatable groupies... Yes, we are not Boston or NY...did Dan somehow not know this when he signed on?  I am sorry but I am not convinced that the old man, who I have blamed for plenty, is solely and completely responsible for trading for Parra and not keeping Miggy Gonzalez.  Those two choices alone would have kept Zach Davies and Miggy Gonzalez in our rotation for these last seasons and probably gotten us much farther towards the postseason than Ubaldo and Gallardo and Miley. 

And I heard Dan say that about Manny...as if he was just some guy like us posting on this  board....”Gee, ownership should do something about that.  I mean I have no thoughts really about whether the organization should or shouldn’t, but somebody should really decide that.”       Good Lord.  lol

Do we play the Yanks or Red Sox one game at a year and rotate who is at home? Then if we win we play one game for all the marbles? Peter would not have paid Cam Newton what Auburn did....   Of course DD knew this. It is also the reason why we hired a guy out of baseball for 10 years. He also made the playoffs 3 times.

You think a strong organization would allow a once in a generation talent go into his last season with no idea what to do with him? Would the Astros have gotten to this point? The Indians?  I laughed last summer when people were mad that Dan had not dealt him. I am suppose to believe Peter had given the go ahead to do that? 

You are correct that those moves would have been better than Miley and Ubaldo.  My basic point is expecting anyone to win over the long haul while trying to find quality starting pitching from leftovers is not going to work. My other point is a deeper system - which we could easily have- would assist any GM in making trades. 

[24fps]

Is this the official bash Duquette thread for the 2017-2018 offseason?

It's got a great title and it's already off to a fast start.  With luck, it will get so popular, so fast that there won't be any need for another one.

[Can_of_corn]

4 minutes ago, 24fps said:

Is this the official bash Duquette thread for the 2017-2018 offseason?

It's got a great title and it's already off to a fast start.  With luck, it will get so popular, so fast that there won't be any need for another one.

I was thinking of digging up a thread from a couple offseasons ago and using that.

[SteveA]

4 minutes ago, 24fps said:

Is this the official bash Duquette thread for the 2017-2018 offseason?

It's got a great title and it's already off to a fast start.  With luck, it will get so popular, so fast that there won't be any need for another one.

Are you kidding, there's about ten of them.

And while I agree with many of the criticisms, it sure does get repetitive.

I know... I don't have to read them all.   Yada yada.

[eddie83]

3 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

I was thinking of digging up a thread from a couple offseasons ago and using that.

The one I started? This is Dan’s mess. That was during the 2015 season.

I haven’t around much lately, I should have just stayed away. I hate this time of year. Finally had some time on my hands. 

[24fps]

8 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

I was thinking of digging up a thread from a couple offseasons ago and using that.

How long do you reckon it would be before anyone caught on?  I put the over/under at 13.5 days.

[Can_of_corn]

2 minutes ago, eddie83 said:

The one I started? This is Dan’s mess. That was during the 2015 season.

I haven’t around much lately, I should have just stayed away. I hate this time of year. Finally had some time on my hands. 

Maybe yours, I would have just picked one out at random.

[Can_of_corn]

1 minute ago, 24fps said:

How long to you reckon it would be before anyone caught on?  I put the over/under at 13.5 days.

I figure one of the anti-necro posters would have been complaining about it within an hour.

[Aristotelian]

3 hours ago, tntoriole said:

Cubs sign Chatwood,  if they win on Ohtani they will not sign Cobb, if they lose on Ohtani, they will sign Cobb.   

We will get Miggy Gonzalez,  Tillman on a one year deal and Castro. 

I will go out on a limb and predict Miguel and Cashner. 

[Roll Tide]

12 minutes ago, Aristotelian said:

I will go out on a limb and predict Miguel and Cashner. 

Wouldn't be surprised but I like the deal Manny and extend Schoop. It would prove they gave learned a lesson about extending your guts sooner if nothing else.