What Do You Think was Communicated

[Aristotelian]

2 hours ago, Frobby said:

6.   I’m dreading the 2018 season right now.   It was so awful last year getting home right around game time, eating dinner, checking my phone to see the score only to see we were already losing by multiple runs in the 2nd inning practically every other game.   There were many games I never turned on because we were losing by a lot before I could finish eating.   I cannot believe we haven’t even begun to address that situation.

That is a great description of last year. It's amazing we won as many games as we did, the pitching was that bad. 

I am not surprised it hasn't been addressed at this point in the offseason, though. DD never acts early in the offseason. He does not want to make the big impulsive move, he wants to outsmart everyone and find value in everyone else's leftovers. That can work when you are tweaking an already strong roster but not when you have to fix massive glaring weaknesses.

[Frobby]

To be fair, there are not many good pitchers off the board yet.    But the sad sack remarks made by DD and through Roch parroting the party line make it clear that we’re not going to make any effort to sign an average or better starting pitcher, which is just criminal unless we are going into rebuild mode.   

[Satyr3206]

And getting to the heart of the matter what was communicated really isn't important. Angelos is a Lawyer and loves to litigate. Which means dragging things out. Look at the Masn lawsuit. Look at his entire legal career. His strategy most of the time is to wait the other side out. That has also become the way the Orioles operate. They can't even get the contracts out to their employees in a normal span of time. It's unfortunate but that's the way it is.

[eddie83]

48 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

Peter talks to the fans?

Speaking of how many are they going to lose this year? 

[flyhighbirds]

Duquette was so bad in Boston, he couldnt get a job in baseball for ten years.   Nobody would hire him in any capacity. He was even a bigger parhia and outcast than Angelos.        We got lucky and pryed away retread scout Fred F from yankees, and we got a few number three pitchers.   Dont foget, he also signed Ubaldo and traded away our top young pitching for nothing.   Outside of that, his whole career has been a disaster, and now you are all seeing how bad he is.    He is the one that publically keeps claiming we are a serious contender,  when it is obvious to anyone with a brain we should have traded off pieces two or three years ago starting with Jones.    He should have been pushing the rebuild before, but he is a selfish .   And by the way, Im not saying the other two dont deserve blame either.    They are the three stooges.

 

[Mondo Trasho]

11 minutes ago, flyhighbirds said:

Duquette was so bad in Boston, he couldnt get a job in baseball for ten years.   Nobody would hire him in any capacity. He was even a bigger parhia and outcast than Angelos.        We got lucky and pryed away retread scout Fred F from yankees, and we got a few number three pitchers.   Dont foget, he also signed Ubaldo and traded away our top young pitching for nothing.   Outside of that, his whole career has been a disaster, and now you are all seeing how bad he is.    He is the one that publically keeps claiming we are a serious contender,  when it is obvious to anyone with a brain we should have traded off pieces two or three years ago starting with Jones.    He should have been pushing the rebuild before, but he is a selfish .   And by the way, Im not saying the other two dont deserve blame either.    They are the three stooges.

 

He's also the guy who fleeced the Dodgers by giving them Delino DeShields for Pedro Martinez back when he was GM of the Expos. So...

[hoosiers]

3 hours ago, Frobby said:

6.   I’m dreading the 2018 season right now.   It was so awful last year getting home right around game time, eating dinner, checking my phone to see the score only to see we were already losing by multiple runs in the 2nd inning practically every other game.   There were many games I never turned on because we were losing by a lot before I could finish eating.   I cannot believe we haven’t even begun to address that situation.

DD's time here was almost certainly going to end this way.  Many folks warned of this the day he was hired.  Very few quality LT assets acquired.  Absolutely fleeced in trade after trade.  Signed awful free agents save for Chen and Nelson and Castillo.  Dealt away draft picks to save $.  

OTOH, pretty much every GM gets fired.  And we don't know the full constraints of PA or the requests by Buck.

At least our minor league system is middle of the road and not a disaster and the only poor LTC is with Davis.

 

[Satyr3206]

There is only one constant to the way the Orioles are run. It's easy to figure out.

[Satyr3206]

1 hour ago, RZNJ said:

Sorry, didn't get it the first time.   This is a great question.   Who are Pete Angelos' confidantes?    As I said before, I don't think Duquette is at the top of that list but I suspect he certainly has input.   Whose opinion does he respect?    I would suspect that Buck Showalter is the #1 guy he respects and listens to.    Of course, I could be wrong.   Then there is Brady, who seemingly answers directly to the owner instead of the GM.     I certainly don't think Showalter is a yes man.   I hope that Brady isn't.  

I suspect if a conversation took place in which they informed him that things would be very tough next year and if they could get a couple of ML starters and with a couple of breaks (bounceback by either or both of Trumbo/Davis, good health of Britton) that they would be able to compete this year.    I think the initial plan may have been to obtain one FA starter and trade Brach or Brach + for another starter.    Someone else theorized that when some of their FA targets passed them up that they then started to consider trading Manny.   Who knows.    Pretty sure no one recommended a rebuild.

Let me say this though.   If Duquette recommended a rebuild, I think it would fall on deaf ears.    Even if Buck tried to say a rebuild was needed, I think that would be a tough sell to Peter Angelos.   

If an Owner, who is obviously very astute in certain business ventures, can't see where their Baseball team is right now they are blind. I don't care who they listen to. Use your own power of observation and act accordingly.

[foxfield]

4 hours ago, Can_of_corn said:

Peter talks to the fans?

Oh he is talking...  sounds an awful lot like Bah Humbug or maybe it’s Yuck Fou. 

There were two ways to go after the ‘17 season. Rebuild totally (possibly partially) or go all in for pitching. Both direction had risk but potential rewards. People advocated for their side. Every person understood that doing neither, staying in the middle, would be a disaster. 

You want to blame DD?  Fine. Buck?  Be my guest. Team leader AJ? Sure have at it.  No organization in Sports has no plan.  Some have bad plans. Some have good plans but poorly implement them. Only the Orioles could go into an off season with the following set of facts:

1) GM on final year of contract

2) Manager on final year. 

3) Best player on final year. 

4) Best reliever on final year.

5) Team leader on final year.

6) Not willing to sign free agents.

7) Not willing to trade.

8) Three openings in rotation.

Well...it WAS a good run and it was great to be relevant.  It was awesome to end the playoff drought.  

There has been some bad luck, but I am beyond furious.  I’m sure Brady will have us in great shape for 2019...Opening day CF, leadoff hitter, manager and GM.

Only 99 days till the season begins  

 

[foxfield]

3 hours ago, hoosiers said:

DD's time here was almost certainly going to end this way.  Many folks warned of this the day he was hired.  Very few quality LT assets acquired.  Absolutely fleeced in trade after trade.  Signed awful free agents save for Chen and Nelson and Castillo.  Dealt away draft picks to save $.  

OTOH, pretty much every GM gets fired.  And we don't know the full constraints of PA or the requests by Buck.

At least our minor league system is middle of the road and not a disaster and the only poor LTC is with Davis.

 

Were those the same folks who missed that literally NO ONE ELSE WANTED The job?  Several top candidates even turned down the opportunity to interview.  DD has most definitely not been perfect, but he said on day one he would win and he has. We did not before he arrived and we may not after he is gone. 

[tntoriole]

3 hours ago, Mondo Trasho said:

He's also the guy who fleeced the Dodgers by giving them Delino DeShields for Pedro Martinez back when he was GM of the Expos. So...

And traded for him again to Boston for Carl Pavano, Tony Armas Jr.   And obtained Kevin Youklis,  Jason Varitek and Derek Lowe for Heathcliff Slocumb,  found Tim Wakefield from the dumpster, signed Johnny Damon, drafted Nomar Garciaparra...

[Frobby]

1 hour ago, foxfield said:

Were those the same folks who missed that literally NO ONE ELSE WANTED The job?  Several top candidates even turned down the opportunity to interview.  DD has most definitely not been perfect, but he said on day one he would win and he has. We did not before he arrived and we may not after he is gone. 

I do think that if it was so obvious that the Orioles were ready to turn the corner, there would have been other candidates who wanted the job.   It’s hard to deny that Duquette did a great job in his first year.

[Gus]

Quote

O's strategy

#1: Keep saying that the team will be competitive this coming year (to appease season ticket holders) and put as many fans in the seats as possible.

#2:  Change team hat design again and sell as many as possible to bring income to team

#3: Claim that DD will make some trades late in season but don't do it - then once free agents leave get draft choices

This is the O's strategy for 2018 and beyond.

Last place is a certainty.

Time to resurrect the moving billboard idea calling for Angelos to sell the team.  Got front page in The Sun on opening day last time we did that.  I sent a check.

[Frobby]

22 hours ago, RZNJ said:

Here's a thread at the time Duquette was hired.    Always interesting to look back and wonder what happened to some of these posters.

http://forum.orioleshangout.com/forums/index.php?/topic/12050-os-duquette-close-to-deal/

 

I don't see too much gloom and doom about Duquette ruining the franchise or anything.

It was already in ruins.    14 straight losing seasons, the last several of which were sub-70 wins, and numerous GM candidates turning down the job or refusing to be considered.    The perception at the time was he really couldn’t make it any worse.    Amazing how quickly fans have forgotten that.