Decision Checklist for the Orioles

[El Gordo]

4 minutes ago, Frobby said:

Dan works on his resume, and checks the status of his 401k.

In all seriousness, of course they discuss all the player and roster related stuff.    But what they’re actually doing about it, who knows?

Two things I MO: waiting for the SP market to develop and seeing if Machado trade offers improve.

[Lucky_13]

A decision must be made on Machado.  Either trade him for the best available package or keep him.  In their current situation the team is in limbo not knowing how many SP's they need or the amount of available money  they have to spend.  

At this point I'd take one mlb ready starter and prospects for him and move on.  Trade the prospects to another team for a second pitcher and have a competition for the fifth spot. 

 

[Frobby]

4 minutes ago, Lucky_13 said:

A decision must be made on Machado.  Either trade him for the best available package or keep him.  In their current situation the team is in limbo not knowing how many SP's they need or the amount of available money  they have to spend.  

At this point I'd take one mlb ready starter and prospects for him and move on.  Trade the prospects to another team for a second pitcher and have a competition for the fifth spot. 

 

If we trade Manny, IMO we are waving the white flag for 2018 and should concentrate more on the quality of the return than on whether the pieces are “major league ready.”

[osfan83]

47 minutes ago, Ripken said:

It's almost like, there's no plan.

Maybe the front office is not aware of these things? 

[Tx Oriole]

58 minutes ago, interloper said:

It's January 2, 2018 and the Orioles have perhaps the most decisions to make of any team in baseball this offseason. They've made zero decisions at last count other than drafting Rule 5 players. Let's keep a running checklist, shall we?

-Dan Duquette's contract status after 2018

-Buck Showalter's contract status after 2018 

-Adam Jones: trade, extend, or ride out the contract? 

-Zach Britton: trade, release, or extend?

-Manny Machado: trade, extend, or ride out the contract?

-Jonathan Schoop: trade or extend?

-Rotation hole #3

-Rotation hole #4

-Rotation hole #5

-6th depth rotation piece other than Nestor Cortes

-Left-handed bat

-Trumbo: How does he fit on the roster?

-Bullpen depth piece

None of these things have been officially decided or announced as of 2:00 pm on 1/2/18. I'm not saying they need to announce or accomplish all of these. For example, we may never get an official announcement if Dan is planning to leave after 2018, but nevertheless, it's a potential decision that we as fans currently know nothing about officially. 

 

Let DD and Buck go. For heavens sake trade Manny. O's can't offered him. They need to trade him or else he walks. Extend Schoop.   

[ReclaimTheCrown]

1 hour ago, interloper said:

It's January 2, 2018 and the Orioles have perhaps the most decisions to make of any team in baseball this offseason. They've made zero decisions at last count other than drafting Rule 5 players. Let's keep a running checklist, shall we?

-Dan Duquette's contract status after 2018

-Buck Showalter's contract status after 2018 

-Adam Jones: trade, extend, or ride out the contract? 

-Zach Britton: trade, release, or extend?

-Manny Machado: trade, extend, or ride out the contract?

-Jonathan Schoop: trade or extend?

-Rotation hole #3

-Rotation hole #4

-Rotation hole #5

-6th depth rotation piece other than Nestor Cortes

-Left-handed bat

-Trumbo: How does he fit on the roster?

-Bullpen depth piece

None of these things have been officially decided or announced as of 2:00 pm on 1/2/18. I'm not saying they need to announce or accomplish all of these. For example, we may never get an official announcement if Dan is planning to leave after 2018, but nevertheless, it's a potential decision that we as fans currently know nothing about officially. 

 

Reviewing this list makes me even more pissed that the Ravens lost on Sunday because now there's no good distraction from the impending Orioles reckoning lol...

[osfan83]

37 minutes ago, MDK02 said:

I wonder what DD and company do on a day to day basis right now.. do they discuss any of this stuff.

I've been a fan since my first memories in the late 60's....I know the Orioles are far from perfect, and have struggled at times at making great decisions. But it amazes me how often posters on this board think that front office staff of a Major League Baseball team doesn't have the business acumen of a 3rd grader selling lemonade. 

Yes, they have a plan...you may not agree with it, it might not be a plan that results in a WS, but they have a plan. Many people in the organization have graduated college and understand how to run a business.

Yes, they have access to advanced analytics and employ people who can interpret them. Billy Beene understands them too, and hasn't won a WS.

There are other things the team considers in addition to winning baseball games. Turning a profit is one of them. yes it may be easier to do with a WS winning team, but it can also be done without winning a WS.

No, the team isn't going to tell the fans everything...this doesn't mean they don't have a plan.

I might not like every move they make....but I'm quite sure everyone in the organization knows they need starting pitching, knows when the season starts, knows the contract status of the GM and field manager, knows the consequences of not trading Manny, and what trading/not trading Manny means to 2018 and beyond. 

When the O's put up several 30 win seasons in a row...then we can question if these guys have ever watched a baseball game or run a business in the past. 

[twinedenter]

1 minute ago, osfan83 said:

I've been a fan since my first memories in the late 60's....I know the Orioles are far from perfect, and have struggled at times at making great decisions. But it amazes me how often posters on this board think that front office staff of a Major League Baseball team doesn't have the business acumen of a 3rd grader selling lemonade. 

Yes, they have a plan...you may not agree with it, it might not be a plan that results in a WS, but they have a plan. Many people in the organization have graduated college and understand how to run a business.

Yes, they have access to advanced analytics and employ people who can interpret them. Billy Beene understands them too, and hasn't won a WS.

There are other things the team considers in addition to winning baseball games. Turning a profit is one of them. yes it may be easier to do with a WS winning team, but it can also be done without winning a WS.

No, the team isn't going to tell the fans everything...this doesn't mean they don't have a plan.

I might not like every move they make....but I'm quite sure everyone in the organization knows they need starting pitching, knows when the season starts, knows the contract status of the GM and field manager, knows the consequences of not trading Manny, and what trading/not trading Manny means to 2018 and beyond. 

When the O's put up several 30 win seasons in a row...then we can question if these guys have ever watched a baseball game or run a business in the past. 

While I agree with what your saying, you have to admit that the MAJORITY of the moves that this organization makes, not only makes us educated fans shake our head, but causes the same reaction to those of the media, who's job it is to follow this game. 

Not only do I not agree with the majority of the moves that they make, but am FAR from alone in my thinking. Many times it makes no sense. and appears to be a one off move.

IMO, there have been so many examples of there NOT being a true plan, I find it hard to believe there actually is one. If there is, it changes quite frequently.

[wildcard]

Castro  is a candidate for the 6th/7th starter.

[osfan83]

13 minutes ago, twinedenter said:

While I agree with what your saying, you have to admit that the MAJORITY of the moves that this organization makes, not only makes us educated fans shake our head, but causes the same reaction to those of the media, who's job it is to follow this game. 

Not only do I not agree with the majority of the moves that they make, but am FAR from alone in my thinking. Many times it makes no sense. and appears to be a one off move.

IMO, there have been so many examples of there NOT being a true plan, I find it hard to believe there actually is one. If there is, it changes quite frequently.

Agree that they do make some head shaking decisions. But it doesn't say much about MLB as a league, if a bunch of guys that don't know anything about baseball or business can somehow get into the play-offs 3 out of 5 years. Could the rest of the teams in the league be that much dumber than our front office? 

[foxfield]

1 hour ago, Ripken said:

It's almost like, there's no plan.

Somebody said that...Im sure of it!

[Ruzious]

1 hour ago, Frobby said:

Dan works on his resume, and checks the status of his 401k.

In all seriousness, of course they discuss all the player and roster related stuff.    But what they’re actually doing about it, who knows?

Yup, unfortunately knowing what your issues are doesn't equate to actually going out and fixing those issues.   It's just one step in getting there.  

[Dipper9]

43 minutes ago, osfan83 said:

I've been a fan since my first memories in the late 60's....I know the Orioles are far from perfect, and have struggled at times at making great decisions. But it amazes me how often posters on this board think that front office staff of a Major League Baseball team doesn't have the business acumen of a 3rd grader selling lemonade. 

Yes, they have a plan...you may not agree with it, it might not be a plan that results in a WS, but they have a plan. Many people in the organization have graduated college and understand how to run a business.

Yes, they have access to advanced analytics and employ people who can interpret them. Billy Beene understands them too, and hasn't won a WS.

There are other things the team considers in addition to winning baseball games. Turning a profit is one of them. yes it may be easier to do with a WS winning team, but it can also be done without winning a WS.

No, the team isn't going to tell the fans everything...this doesn't mean they don't have a plan.

I might not like every move they make....but I'm quite sure everyone in the organization knows they need starting pitching, knows when the season starts, knows the contract status of the GM and field manager, knows the consequences of not trading Manny, and what trading/not trading Manny means to 2018 and beyond. 

When the O's put up several 30 win seasons in a row...then we can question if these guys have ever watched a baseball game or run a business in the past. 

What they fail to understand, through all the years, is they THINK we care more about the player, ie Manny, then about winning baseball.  We were in fifth place with Manny last year.  This season is already looking bleak as we currently have all the holes that the OP mentions, plus the fact that the Yanks have restocked again.  The attendance will be terrible even if we keep Manny, but it will look great compared to 2019 if we keep Manny and he walks for a draft pick.  This organization needs to realize where we are, trade all of our stars to rebuild now, and by 2020 we can be back on the upswing.  If we keep Manny, Britton, Jones, etc. and let them walk for nothing after this season, we could potentially we looking at another long stretch of losing baseball in Baltimore.  5 good seasons did not erase the memory of 14 losing seasons, and the fans were just starting to get re-engaged with the team.  Mismanagement now could ruin all the good will since Buck has arrived on the scene.

[interloper]

43 minutes ago, wildcard said:

Castro  is a candidate for the 6th/7th starter.

Agree, but you can't go into the season relying on converting a 23 yr old reliever into a starter, even as a depth starter. You hope he beats out somebody for the 5th spot at best, but you need guys who are qualified starting pitchers to comprise your depth. Also, we may need Castro for the bullpen depending on if Brach is traded.

[foxfield]

30 minutes ago, osfan83 said:

I've been a fan since my first memories in the late 60's....I know the Orioles are far from perfect, and have struggled at times at making great decisions. But it amazes me how often posters on this board think that front office staff of a Major League Baseball team doesn't have the business acumen of a 3rd grader selling lemonade. 

Yes, they have a plan...you may not agree with it, it might not be a plan that results in a WS, but they have a plan. Many people in the organization have graduated college and understand how to run a business.

Yes, they have access to advanced analytics and employ people who can interpret them. Billy Beene understands them too, and hasn't won a WS.

There are other things the team considers in addition to winning baseball games. Turning a profit is one of them. yes it may be easier to do with a WS winning team, but it can also be done without winning a WS.

No, the team isn't going to tell the fans everything...this doesn't mean they don't have a plan.

I might not like every move they make....but I'm quite sure everyone in the organization knows they need starting pitching, knows when the season starts, knows the contract status of the GM and field manager, knows the consequences of not trading Manny, and what trading/not trading Manny means to 2018 and beyond. 

When the O's put up several 30 win seasons in a row...then we can question if these guys have ever watched a baseball game or run a business in the past. 

I agree with the jist of what you are saying.  And I am at the front of the line of the: "There is no plan!" club.  I am careful however to not look to pass judgment because the Oriole onion is simply more complex than saying DD sucks or PA sucks or ...whatever.

But if you remember the Orioles' history from the 60's to now as I do, you surely understand that the Orioles were one of the best franchises in all of sports and now they kindly... are not.  In the 18 seasons between 1966 and 1983, the Orioles went to 6 WS, won 3 (Gave two of them away, but thats another rant) and in those 18 seasons they won the AL East 8 of 18 times, won 90 or more games in 14 of 18 seasons, including 5 years with 100+ wins, three of which were consecutive.

I point that out to remind you that in the entire history of the modern era, 1900 till now,  there are only two...TWO teams that have failed to win 40 games.  I am not going to assume there is a plan, regardless of the intelligent people I believe to be running the franchise.  I certainly do not feel the need to be on speed dial with any members of the Orioles Brass, but absent any simulation of the enacting of a plan, I am going to continue to question what that plan is...I am certainly not going to wait for a 30 some win season to raise my hand in concern.

I don't question the abilities of the Front Office, in fact I am frequently very supportive and continue to think DD specifically is overly criticized by fans in general and especially here.  I will simply say that this is a critical time for the franchise and until these extremely important questions are answered, it will be impossible to understand a plan.  More importantly until these questions are answered it will be impossible to really rate the Front Office tenure.

There is a silver lining, of course.  Given that so many of these questions answer themselves this year, what ever the plan is...the wait for knowing the direction is limited to this calendar year.  It is not the same as the glory days from 1966-1983, but that doesn't mean it can't work.