Let ME be Me

[OsEatAlEast]

Well the only thing I can say about Mike Wright is. I wish they would have let Jake Arrieta be himself. O's often try to fix things before they see if it worked in the first place. They've been doing it with pitchers at least since Pete Harnisch. One of the dumbest things I can think of is telling a pitcher to lose his out pitch. Also see Ben McDonald.

[OsEatAlEast]

While I do think you are correct with that point. Ben McDonald's short career could have had a lot to do with that.

They also told him to do away with the split finger fastball. Which was believed to mess up a guys arm at the time. I believe it is no worse than a curve ball.

Even though there is no way to know either way. I'm always of the opinion that you let a guy go with what got him there until he shows he can't advance any further.

[weams]

Scott McGregor told a bit of the Jake story at Dan Connolly's Hot Stove Event this year.  He disagrees. He says that Jake was always HE until he failed and had to do as he was told in a new organization where he had no reputation and no option to rebel. Or he would be left in the Milb until his options were gone and then he would be dfa'd. He simplified his approach under order and direction and found success. 

McGregor said the last two MiLB starts that Arrieta had as an Oriole showed him that Jake would never change and trust his stuff while in the organization. 

Scott credited Jakes profoundly disappointing Orioles career to his lack of working in the strike zone with his superior pitches and his fascination with the variety of pitches that he had not mastered. 

[tntoriole]

51 minutes ago, weams said:

Scott McGregor told a bit of the Jake story at Dan Connolly's Hot Stove Event this year.  He disagrees. He says that Jake was always HE until he failed and had to do as he was told in a new organization where he had no reputation and no option to rebel. Or he would be left in the Milb until his options were gone and then he would be dfa'd. He simplified his approach under order and direction and found success. 

McGregor said the last two MiLB starts that Arrieta had as an Oriole showed him that Jake would never change and trust his stuff while in the organization. 

Scott credited Jakes profoundly disappointing Orioles career to his lack of working in the strike zone with his superior pitches and his fascination with the variety of pitches that he had not mastered. 

Jake subsequently attributed much of his success to his extreme Pilates body sculpting regimen that he started after moving to Chicago as being the key in improving his stamina and muscle distribution thus keeping him in the same delivery spot longer in games. 

[OsEatAlEast]

1 hour ago, weams said:

Scott McGregor told a bit of the Jake story at Dan Connolly's Hot Stove Event this year.  He disagrees. He says that Jake was always HE until he failed and had to do as he was told in a new organization where he had no reputation and no option to rebel. Or he would be left in the Milb until his options were gone and then he would be dfa'd. He simplified his approach under order and direction and found success. 

McGregor said the last two MiLB starts that Arrieta had as an Oriole showed him that Jake would never change and trust his stuff while in the organization. 

Scott credited Jakes profoundly disappointing Orioles career to his lack of working in the strike zone with his superior pitches and his fascination with the variety of pitches that he had not mastered. 

Hmm, very interesting. Didn't the O's make him stop throwing his cutter? Seems to contradict some of what Arrieta said himself about being able to throw his cutter again. Maybe it was just him being mad at the O's also.

He is the only guy I've seen Buck actually be visibly mad at on the mound.

[OsFanSinceThe80s]

51 minutes ago, tntoriole said:

Jake subsequently attributed much of his success to his extreme Pilates body sculpting regimen that he started after moving to Chicago as being the key in improving his stamina and muscle distribution thus keeping him in the same delivery spot longer in games. 

Pilates might have helped later on, but Arrieta instantly became a better pitcher with the Cubs. Something was very wrong between the Orioles and Arrieta.  Probably fair to say both sides are to blame.  

[weams]

3 minutes ago, OsEatAlEast said:

Hmm, very interesting. Didn't the O's make him stop throwing his cutter? Seems to contradict some of what Arrieta said himself about being able to throw his cutter again. Maybe it was just him being mad at the O's also.

He is the only guy I've seen Buck actually be visibly mad at on the mound.

From what I was told, Jake received counsel to throw three of his seven pitches only. I never heard that he was told he could not throw his slider. (cutter) I do know when he developed the mass that was supposed to be bone spurs and wasn't that he stopped throwing it while attempting to pitch without surgery that one year. I don't know if it improved or diminished his effectiveness the second time through the order. 

Scott McGregor indicated that when he was young he could have gotten more outs JUST by throwing his fastball. He was always getting beat on his fourth or fifth best pitch. 

[weams]

2 minutes ago, OsFanSinceThe80s said:

Pilates might have helped later on, but Arrieta instantly became a better pitcher with the Cubs. Something was very wrong between the Orioles and Arrieta.  Probably fair to say both sides are to blame.  

He did go to the minors first. So it wasn't instant. But he did pitch like a different guy in the NL. I guess we underestimate how the extra bunting and stealing outs and the pitcher batting help a starter out. 

[atomic]

37 minutes ago, weams said:

From what I was told, Jake received counsel to throw three of his seven pitches only. I never heard that he was told he could not throw his slider. (cutter) I do know when he developed the mass that was supposed to be bone spurs and wasn't that he stopped throwing it while attempting to pitch without surgery that one year. I don't know if it improved or diminished his effectiveness the second time through the order. 

Scott McGregor indicated that when he was young he could have gotten more outs JUST by throwing his fastball. He was always getting beat on his fourth or fifth best pitch. 

Scott McGregor stuff want that good.   I don't really know what comparing himself to Arrieta accomplishes.  

All I know is Arrieta seemed to do well at beginning of games and the wheels would come off the cart in 4th or 5th inning.   I don't know if it was back of confidence or not being able to pitch out of the stretch.  I don't think it had anything to do with him using his fourth best pitch. 

Also I think time to plate adjustments are things that should be done in lower minors and not something you work on in big leagues. 

[atomic]

42 minutes ago, weams said:

He did go to the minors first. So it wasn't instant. But he did pitch like a different guy in the NL. I guess we underestimate how the extra bunting and stealing outs and the pitcher batting help a starter out. 

While the National league is definitely easier for a pitcher.   You don't go from being a replacement level pitcher to a Cy Young winner because you don't have to face a DH. 

[PaulFolk]

6 hours ago, OsEatAlEast said:

While I do think you are correct with that point. Ben McDonald's short career could have had a lot to do with that.

 

Did you just respond to your own post to agree with yourself?

[tntoriole]

1 hour ago, OsFanSinceThe80s said:

Pilates might have helped later on, but Arrieta instantly became a better pitcher with the Cubs. Something was very wrong between the Orioles and Arrieta.  Probably fair to say both sides are to blame.  

This is a great piece about his transition.  The issues with Orioles were certainly there, but he began his physical yransformation with Pilates in the offseason of 2013 after the trade to Cubs.  

https://www.si.com/mlb/2016/03/28/jake-arrieta-chicago-cubs-profile

He had this to say about it..

“What I noticed from Pilates last year was that I have much better control of my body,” Arrieta says. “I repeat my delivery consistently. My balance is much improved. And the mental and physical toughness Pilates requires to complete movements the correct way have directly helped me on the mound.”

 

[Beef Supreme]

8 hours ago, OsEatAlEast said:

While I do think you are correct with that point. Ben McDonald's short career could have had a lot to do with that.

They also told him to do away with the split finger fastball. Which was believed to mess up a guys arm at the time. I believe it is no worse than a curve ball.

Even though there is no way to know either way. I'm always of the opinion that you let a guy go with what got him there until he shows he can't advance any further.

 

1 hour ago, PaulFolk said:

Did you just respond to your own post to agree with yourself?

[Beef Supreme]

2 hours ago, weams said:

From what I was told, Jake received counsel to throw three of his seven pitches only. I never heard that he was told he could not throw his slider. (cutter) I do know when he developed the mass that was supposed to be bone spurs and wasn't that he stopped throwing it while attempting to pitch without surgery that one year. I don't know if it improved or diminished his effectiveness the second time through the order.

Scott McGregor indicated that when he was young he could have gotten more outs JUST by throwing his fastball. He was always getting beat on his fourth or fifth best pitch.

 

2 hours ago, atomic said:

Scott McGregor stuff want that good.   I don't really know what comparing himself to Arrieta accomplishes.  

McGregor was talking about Arrieta getting more outs by throwing just his fastball. He was not comparing himself to Arrieta.

[sportsfan8703]

I thought this thread was about Bundy and the cutter.