Dave Sheinin article on the plight of the Orioles

[Frobby]

Dave Sheinin is a Washington Post reporter who had the Orioles beat for several years before the Post stopped sending their own reporters to the games.   He wrote a long piece about this year's team that appears on the front page of the Sport section (where O's related articles seldom appear).   Here's a link: https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/sports/wp/2018/05/09/wins-and-answers-in-short-supply-as-orioles-2018-season-careens-toward-disaster/?utm_term=.da111ce06a28

The article closes this way:

 

Quote

 

But the Orioles’ future is also clouded by a convoluted and shifting management structure, which begins at the top. Angelos, who turns 89 in July, is known to have taken a much lesser role in the operation of the franchise this year, a leadership void that has been filled in part by his sons, Lou and John, as well as longtime Angelos confidant Brady Anderson, the team’s vice president of baseball operations.

Both Showalter and General Manager Dan Duquette — a management team that guided the Orioles to three playoff appearances between 2012 and 2016 — are in the final year of their contracts, a fact that has contributed to the sense of directionlessness. In particular, Orioles fans must wonder whether Duquette, if he will not be brought back in 2019, should be kept on board this summer to oversee the June amateur draft, in which the Orioles hold the 11th overall pick, as well as a potentially franchise-altering rebuild at the trade deadline.

On Tuesday during batting practice, Showalter, in his uniform, and Duquette, in a business suit, chatted near the batting cage, while Anderson, in workout clothes, leaned on the cage and watched the Orioles’ hitters take their cuts. Neither Duquette nor Anderson stopped to take questions from the media. Another day came and went, and another loss was pinned to the Orioles, without any hint that anything was going to change anytime soon.

“We’re grinding every day — everybody, the players especially,” Showalter said after Tuesday night’s loss. “And I’ve got confidence that we’ve got good people and it will turn at some point. Maybe tomorrow.”

But tomorrow carries no promises. And even after Tuesday night’s abject misery, which must have felt like some sort of new low point, the Orioles couldn’t be certain there wasn’t still another level to which to sink.

 

 

[MikeAD]

Quote

“We’ve been doing a lot of different things … and trying a lot of different things, and we’ll continue to do that until we can get back to some things that we know we’re capable of,” Manager Buck Showalter said after Tuesday night’s loss. “We’re not just sitting around going, ‘Well, it’s just one of those things you go through.’”

[ORIOLE33]

Buck has to go.

[orioles119]

This thing...

 

or this thing?

[Moose Milligan]

1 minute ago, ORIOLE33 said:

Buck has to go.

They all do, really.

That's one of the funniest things about this place, people want to place the blame squarely on one persons shoulders.  It's not that simple.  

And even if you're to fire Buck right now, so what?  Dan hires a new placeholder manager for the rest of the season, but hey, the OH has some blood in the water so that's what counts.  

Dan leaves in the offseason to...what?  Let Brady run the show and call the shots?  Or does Brady hire a GM and let him do things?  Who's call is it to hire the manager and who is the manager going to be working with on a daily basis?  

Too many questions, not enough answers.

Fine, yeah, fire Buck.  See what happens.  (not much)

[MikeAD]

3 minutes ago, Moose Milligan said:

They all do, really.

That's one of the funniest things about this place, people want to place the blame squarely on one persons shoulders.  It's not that simple.  

And even if you're to fire Buck right now, so what?  Dan hires a new placeholder manager for the rest of the season, but hey, the OH has some blood in the water so that's what counts.  

Dan leaves in the offseason to...what?  Let Brady run the show and call the shots?  Or does Brady hire a GM and let him do things?  Who's call is it to hire the manager and who is the manager going to be working with on a daily basis?  

Too many questions, not enough answers.

Fine, yeah, fire Buck.  See what happens.  (not much)

Yes its an incompetence stand off.  Because its literally everyone, a dolt and/or failure under every rock, in every nook and cranny, they're never going to pull the trigger and start the process.  Most likely when DD and/or Buck leave we will just put in some status quo and go another 2-3 years of the same before theres a change, if theres ever a change.

 

 

I also think folks forget how lucky we were to have Buck and Duquette fall into our laps, probably in large part due to the legitimacy MacPhail brought to the club. It didn't have to be this way.  DD did a lot of things well.  We will never know how much control he actually had.  But who even knows if it matters.  

 

[Moose Milligan]

1 minute ago, MikeAD said:

Yes its an incompetence stand off.  Because its literally everyone, a dolt and/or failure under every rock, in every nook and cranny, they're never going to pull the trigger and start the process.  Most likely when DD and/or Buck leave we will just put in some status quo and go another 2-3 years of the same before theres a change, if theres ever a change.

 

 

I also think folks forget how lucky we were to have Buck and Duquette fall into our laps, probably in large part due to the legitimacy MacPhail brought to the club. It didn't have to be this way.  DD did a lot of things well.  We will never know how much control he actually had.  But who even knows if it matters.  

 

Well, Tony's latest really outlines it all.  Looks like DD has been kinda neutered for the past few years.  

Yes, this team got incredibly lucky.  The SweaterVest laid some good groundwork and DD did some great things, Buck was a great field manager.

The one thing I am happy about this season is that they're SO BAD that it can't be ignored.  Like if they were 2 games under .500 there'd be talk about which 4th or 5th starter we should be targeting in a trade or something dumb like that.  Thankfully, there's no talk of that this year.  

[Tx Oriole]

9 minutes ago, ORIOLE33 said:

Buck has to go.

Yes he does but firing him won't change anything. But as long as ownership is the same nothing will change. You can fire DD, Brady and Buck. Then who takes over? It'll be interesting to see who the next GM and manager will be.

[ORIOLE33]

14 minutes ago, Moose Milligan said:

They all do, really.

That's one of the funniest things about this place, people want to place the blame squarely on one persons shoulders.  It's not that simple.  

And even if you're to fire Buck right now, so what?  Dan hires a new placeholder manager for the rest of the season, but hey, the OH has some blood in the water so that's what counts.  

Dan leaves in the offseason to...what?  Let Brady run the show and call the shots?  Or does Brady hire a GM and let him do things?  Who's call is it to hire the manager and who is the manager going to be working with on a daily basis?  

Too many questions, not enough answers.

Fine, yeah, fire Buck.  See what happens.  (not much)

Don’t get me wrong. Everybody needs to go. I was just referring to Bucks comments after the loss on Tuesday.

[Moose Milligan]

Just now, ORIOLE33 said:

Don’t get me wrong. Everybody needs to go. I was just referring to Bucks comments after the loss on Tuesday.

Ehh...I mean lose so much like this and it's embarrassing and there's not really much insight to give and things to say.  I wouldn't know what to say to the media.  He's gotta go up there after every f'ing loss and figure out something to say.  That might be the worst part of his night.

[spiritof66]

38 minutes ago, MikeAD said:

“We’ve been doing a lot of different things … and trying a lot of different things, and we’ll continue to do that until we can get back to some things that we know we’re capable of,” Manager Buck Showalter said after Tuesday night’s loss. “We’re not just sitting around going, ‘Well, it’s just one of those things you go through.’”

Not much new in here. (Interesting that a former MLB beat reporter appears either not to know how attendance is determined or choose to be misleading about it.)

But the quote above got my attention. Really, Buck? What are some of the "lot of different things" the Orioles have tried and are trying?  I can't think of a damn change this team has done, other than those necessitated by injuries (the Stone Hands Platoon at third, Peterson at second). You're still starting Tillman. You're sticking with Brach, mostly. You're still playing Davis and Trumbo and Caleb and Jones and Santander. You're not bunting and starting runners more. Maybe you're clamoring for younger players to be brought up, but if so that hasn't happened. Other than the free-agent upgrades from last year's woeful starters, May 2018 looks a lot like September 2017. .

From what I can tell, the Orioles haven't tried a lot of things. They are pretty much "just sitting around going, ‘Well, it’s just one of those things you go through.’ " Am I missing something? (It wouldn't be the first time.  

[Can_of_corn]

2 minutes ago, spiritof66 said:

Not much new in here. (Interesting that a former MLB beat reporter appears either not to know how attendance is determined or choose to be misleading about it.)

But the quote above got my attention. Really, Buck? What are some of the "lot of different things" the Orioles have tried and are trying?  I can't think of a damn change this team has done, other than those necessitated by injuries (the Stone Hands Platoon at third, Peterson at second). You're still starting Tillman. You're sticking with Brach, mostly. You're still playing Davis and Trumbo and Caleb and Jones and Santander. You're not bunting and starting runners more. Maybe you're clamoring for younger players to be brought up, but if so that hasn't happened. Other than the free-agent upgrades from last year's woeful starters, May 2018 looks a lot like September 2017. .

From what I can tell, the Orioles haven't tried a lot of things. They are pretty much "just sitting around going, ‘Well, it’s just one of those things you go through.’ " Am I missing something? (It wouldn't be the first time.  

He had Davis bat leadoff!

He occasionally sits Joseph against RHP.

Tons of innovative stuff.

[pastorfan]

43 minutes ago, Moose Milligan said:

Well, Tony's latest really outlines it all.  Looks like DD has been kinda neutered for the past few years.  

Yes, this team got incredibly lucky.  The SweaterVest laid some good groundwork and DD did some great things, Buck was a great field manager.

The one thing I am happy about this season is that they're SO BAD that it can't be ignored.  Like if they were 2 games under .500 there'd be talk about which 4th or 5th starter we should be targeting in a trade or something dumb like that.  Thankfully, there's no talk of that this year.  

Don't get your hopes up. They will not trade the guys they should. No one knows who is in charge...so who is even going to make the decision to trade guys? You have what you tolerate...and apparently ownership is cool with the way things are.

[wildcard]

I don't know how anyone that wants to have a shred on credibility can talk about where the O's are right now and not talk about  the injuries,  the schedule and the late signing of Cobb.    But then again it is the Washington Post that has a vested interest in the O's regional rival.

[gmelson26]

53 minutes ago, Moose Milligan said:

Well, Tony's latest really outlines it all.  Looks like DD has been kinda neutered for the past few years.  

Yes, this team got incredibly lucky.  The SweaterVest laid some good groundwork and DD did some great things, Buck was a great field manager.

The one thing I am happy about this season is that they're SO BAD that it can't be ignored.  Like if they were 2 games under .500 there'd be talk about which 4th or 5th starter we should be targeting in a trade or something dumb like that.  Thankfully, there's no talk of that this year.  

Absolutely.  It's also worth noting that we hit a nice window of NY and BOS being a bit off.  This year shows what we're up against for the next 2-6 years or so.