Orioles to be more active in International Free Agent Market

[OsFanSinceThe80s]

6 minutes ago, Ohfan67 said:

I would disagree. The Marlins' action strongly suggests that the Orioles have made as strong bid and the Marlins are being forced to come up with more money. 

It’s more than just money.  You need to convince the Mesa brothers why they should choose the Orioles.  What about the culture of the Orioles makes the Mesa brothers say yes I want to be an Oriole.  

[Ohfan67]

The Orioles need to make a sound investment decision here, even if that makes the Gausman trade look worse, etc. There's no need to over invest in these players if the cost gets much higher than their talent and potential really warrants. It might make us diehard fans feel good, but there's no need to compound past bad mistakes by making a new one. The organization has a history of making dumb financial decisions based on ownership or perceived fan emotions. They need to do the cold, hard math on this and stick to it. 

[Can_of_corn]

2 minutes ago, thezeroes said:

The Marlins could have acquired $10.544 Million

The Orioles were limited to $9.633 Million

So yeah they could offer more.

July 2nd signings per MLB.com:

Baltimore:  None

Marlins: Yoelvis Sanchez, OF, Dominican Republic - $400,000
Christhian, Rodriguez, SS, Venezuela -- $300,000

So on July 2nd the gap had closed to 211K.

Now if you look at this Marlins press release they actually signed 10 players that first day.

https://www.fishstripes.com/2018/7/3/17529060/marlins-2018-international-signing-free-agents-top-prospects-amateur-jhonny-melenciano-sandy-gaston

I'm guessing the other eight cost more than 211K in total.

So my point stands, on the morning of July 3rd the Orioles had more potential money.

 

[Ohfan67]

3 minutes ago, OsFanSinceThe80s said:

It’s more than just money.  You need to convince the Mesa brothers why they should choose the Orioles.  What about the culture of the Orioles makes the Mesa brothers say yes I want to be an Oriole.  

Ahh, the old wine and dine argument. is this you Trea?  If it was about culture, then Miami wouldn't be trading for more money, they would have already signed the Mesa brothers. The Mesa brothers have very qualified and experienced agents. This all about money. 

[Can_of_corn]

8 minutes ago, Ohfan67 said:

The Mesas were not declared free agents until September 14th. What does July 2nd have to do with anything? The Mesa's agents are not idiots. They were never going to jump at the first official offer they could receive on September 14th. It seems the agents are doing a great job of maximizing the amount of money they are going to get. If the Marlins want to keep making trades to get their maximum amount, then there's nothing the Orioles can do to block them. At some point just throwing as much money as possible at these prospects is dumb. 

 

p.s. I'm not defending the Orioles prior stupidity in the international market, the idiot move of trading away international dollars recently, etc. I was commenting on a post saying way to go Orioles to the news of this most recent Marlins trade. 

Because that is when the signing period started.

Folks know the Mesas were going to be approved well before September 14.

[thezeroes]

1 minute ago, Can_of_corn said:

So my point stands, on the morning of July 3rd the Orioles had more potential money.

ANd does it matter at this point in time??? Dan Duquette traded some of it away. 

[Can_of_corn]

1 minute ago, thezeroes said:

ANd does it matter at this point in time??? Dan Duquette traded some of it away. 

The point is that the Orioles had the ability to offer the most money.  That they don't currently is their fault.

You can't wave your hands in the air and say "The Marlins traded for more money and the O's can't do anything about it!"

[Ohfan67]

1 minute ago, Can_of_corn said:

Because that is when the signing period started.

Folks know the Mesas were going to be approved well before September 14.

I think you were having a conversation about July 2nd with another poster? I don't understand how the relative amounts of money available on July 2nd really means much. The Marlins seem to be pretty desperate to max out on these players and are very likely to overpay for the prospects. At some point walking away is probably the best Orioles move. 

[Ohfan67]

2 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

The point is that the Orioles had the ability to offer the most money.  That they don't currently is their fault.

You can't wave your hands in the air and say "The Marlins traded for more money and the O's can't do anything about it!"

This was directed at another poster, but I see what you were saying now. Trading away some of the international money was incredibly stupid, especially for a minor league free agent type of player, and all on the Orioles. We don't know who made that decision, but hopefully that person is gone. If the Marlins want to overpay for the prospects, then I would be fine with the Orioles walking away. These guys are not Vlad Jr. or other crazy talent. 

[Can_of_corn]

5 minutes ago, Ohfan67 said:

I think you were having a conversation about July 2nd with another poster? I don't understand how the relative amounts of money available on July 2nd really means much. The Marlins seem to be pretty desperate to max out on these players and are very likely to overpay for the prospects. At some point walking away is probably the best Orioles move. 

Eh.

If and this is an if, VVM is a 1.5-2 win player as projected than the O's full maximum allotment would still be a bargain if he performs as projected.  That is 14-15M in production per year.

Cost controlled league average talent is just insanely valuable.

[Mondo Trasho]

I know only a small amount about international signings. What happens if the O's miss out on Mesa? Does their international slot money have an expiration date? Or can they save it up for the next valuable guy say next year or the year after?

[maybenxtyr]

I'm in the camp that thought trading slot money to the Phillies was, "not a big deal". Thankfully the Orioles made me look Stoopid!

[SteveA]

9 minutes ago, Mondo Trasho said:

I know only a small amount about international signings. What happens if the O's miss out on Mesa? Does their international slot money have an expiration date? Or can they save it up for the next valuable guy say next year or the year after?

It's good through June.

But all the top international players have already been snapped up, there would be few left to spend it on.

Unless some guy unexpectedly defects from Cuba and establishes residency, or some 21 year old Japanese superstar suddenly decides he wants to come to the US.

Or the Orioles' brilliant scouts discover some diamond in the rough who has escaped the notice of all the teams that hit the international market early.

[Can_of_corn]

10 minutes ago, Mondo Trasho said:

I know only a small amount about international signings. What happens if the O's miss out on Mesa? Does their international slot money have an expiration date? Or can they save it up for the next valuable guy say next year or the year after?

It expires at the start of the next signing period.  They could theoretically sill sign players with the money.  Maybe in Mexico if they clear that mess up or even Asia.

The odds of them actually using the slot money they got from the Braves is low if they don't sign Mesa.

[maybenxtyr]

2 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

It expires at the start of the next signing period.  They could theoretically sill sign players with the money.  Maybe in Mexico if they clear that mess up or even Asia.

The odds of them actually using the slot money they got from the Braves is low if they don't sign Mesa.

It would be awesome if the Phillies used their money to sign the pitcher after Miami ends up with the brothers.