Superstars that come out of nowhere (sort of)

[Dipper9]

Tom Brady - 6th round.

 

Oh wait.  

[NJOriolesFan]

Al Bumbry - 11th round

Steve Finley -13th round

Gregg Zaun - 17th round

[theocean]

2 hours ago, Frobby said:

Everyone’s drooling at the high pick we’ll get next year and for the next couple of years, but what we really need is a superstar or two who comes from a spot not that heralded.     

Mike Trout - no. 25 overall pick

Mookie Betts - no. 172 overall pick

Aaron Judge - no. 32 overall pick

Those are three top examples, but there are lots of them.    I’d love to see one of them fall our way.

 

 

 

 

I don't know if Trout or Judge came out of no where - they were still first round picks.

In Trout's draft - 2009 - there was:

- Dallas Keuchel, no. 221 overall

- Paul Goldschmidt, no. 246 overall

- Matt Carpenter, no. 399 overall

- JD Martinez, no. 611 overall

In Judge's draft - 2013, there was:

- Cody Bellinger, no. 124 overall

- Trey Manini, no. 249 overall

- Andrew Benintendi, no. 945 overall

So yeah, always value beyond the first round.

[Redskins Rick]

46 minutes ago, Roy Firestone said:

Hes no dark horse pick, but I have a feeling Ryan Mountcastle could be a very fine hitter. Its his defense I worry about.

They much the same thing about Mancini, did they now??????

[Number5]

Roberto Clemente - Rule 5 Draft.

[joelala]

3 minutes ago, Number5 said:

Roberto Clemente - Rule 5 Draft.

Jose Bautista too.

[joelala]

And Mullins looks like a great value in the 13th round right now.  I'm very excited to see him called up soon.

[foxfield]

Felix Pie????

[Moose Milligan]

I'd be more excited about being able to find coaches that can tweak a players swing and get them mashing at the ML level.

Jose Bautista is a jerk but he was once in our system and got a cup of coffee with us.  Went from our system to Tampa, to KC to Pittsburgh and then to Toronto where he changed his swing and started mashing.  6 time all star.  54 homers one season, 43 homers the next.  Might have juiced but hasn't tested positive.  But he definitely did change his swing.  

Max Muncy, A's castoff.  Caught on with the Dodgers.  Switched up his swing, now is slugging over .600 with a 1.000 OPS that leads the league.

I am not saying that EVERY .200 hitting AAAA guy has superstar potential, but the talent level between a Max Muncy and a Jose Bautista isn't too far from a Trey Mancini.  All of these players have ridiculous hand-eye coordination skills, tremendous reflexes and are strong mentally.  

I've been wondering a lot lately if a replacement level (or even a sub replacement level) guy was able to change their swing and approach, how good could they be?  And it's not making changes for changes sake, but it's got to be making the RIGHT changes.  Who are the guys that got into Bautista and Muncy's sphere of influence to make the changes to get them to where they are today?  How did they identify it?  

Obviously way, way more easier said than done but when I see a guy like Mancini who's probably regressed to where he should be or a guy like ...I dunno, Gentry, who is obviously extremely athletic...I just wonder what minor fixes are keeping them from reaching greater heights.   

I'm not trying to be Brady Anderson, I don't think everyone can be saved but if a guy like Jose Bautista or Max Muncy can make some changes and mash, I'm curious to see which of our guys could, too.

[bannanawho]

More important questions are why can’t our system develope players or are we making poor draft decisions?

[OFFNY]

o

 

The first one that comes to mind is Ron Guidry.

 

One year prior to his first full season in the Majors, he was going to quit baseball because he was tired of continually getting sent to AAA instead of the Majors. He was in the car with his wife, driving west towards his home in Louisiana (instead of north, towards the Yankees' AAA Affiliate in Syracuse.) Not  a word was said between them in the first hour of the car ride, as they both knew what was happening. At that point his wife said to him, "Don't do something that you'll regret the rest of your life." 

Guidry didn't say a word when she said that to him ........ he simply got off of the highway towards Louisiana, and headed the car north towards Syracuse. 

One year later in 1977, he had a breakthrough season (16-7 with a 2.82 ERA, 9 Complete Games, and 5 Shutouts.)

The year after that (1978), he had a Koufax-like season of 25-3 with a 1.74 ERA, 248 Strikeouts, 16 Complete Games, and 9 Shutouts.

 

An interesting side-note is that the only reason why Guidry got his first start in 1977 was because Mike Torrez' plane did not arrive in time for him to pitch in the game against the Mariners on April 29th (he had just been acquired from the Athletics.) So Billy Martin had to go with a bullpen arm as an emergency starter ......... he went with Guidry, who proceeded to throw 8.33 innings of shutout ball that night, and he remained in the rotation for the rest of that season (and for many more.)

 

o

[weams]

1 hour ago, Redskins Rick said:

They much the same thing about Mancini, did they now??????

Mancini never had the prospect guys drooling. Too old. College hitter. justD and I were Trey's biggest fans because no scouts payed any attention.  No position. I mean none. If Mountcastle has to turn into Bryce Harper so be it. 

[now]

49 minutes ago, Moose Milligan said:

I'd be more excited about being able to find coaches that can tweak a players swing and get them mashing at the ML level.

Jose Bautista is a jerk but he was once in our system and got a cup of coffee with us.  Went from our system to Tampa, to KC to Pittsburgh and then to Toronto where he changed his swing and started mashing.  6 time all star.  54 homers one season, 43 homers the next.  Might have juiced but hasn't tested positive.  But he definitely did change his swing.  

Max Muncy, A's castoff.  Caught on with the Dodgers.  Switched up his swing, now is slugging over .600 with a 1.000 OPS that leads the league.

I am not saying that EVERY .200 hitting AAAA guy has superstar potential, but the talent level between a Max Muncy and a Jose Bautista isn't too far from a Trey Mancini.  All of these players have ridiculous hand-eye coordination skills, tremendous reflexes and are strong mentally.  

I've been wondering a lot lately if a replacement level (or even a sub replacement level) guy was able to change their swing and approach, how good could they be?  And it's not making changes for changes sake, but it's got to be making the RIGHT changes.  Who are the guys that got into Bautista and Muncy's sphere of influence to make the changes to get them to where they are today?  How did they identify it?  

Obviously way, way more easier said than done but when I see a guy like Mancini who's probably regressed to where he should be or a guy like ...I dunno, Gentry, who is obviously extremely athletic...I just wonder what minor fixes are keeping them from reaching greater heights.   

I'm not trying to be Brady Anderson, I don't think everyone can be saved but if a guy like Jose Bautista or Max Muncy can make some changes and mash, I'm curious to see which of our guys could, too.

Good point, and of course the same goes for pitching, as we're all too aware (Arrieta).

[weams]

36 minutes ago, bannanawho said:

More important questions are why can’t our system develope players or are we making poor draft decisions?

I'd say neither.  No international players and coming off too many years of winning. 

[OFFNY]

23 minutes ago, OFFNY said:

o

 

The first one that comes to mind is Ron Guidry.

 

One year prior to his first full season in the Majors, he was going to quit baseball because he was tired of continually getting sent to AAA instead of the Majors. He was in the car with his wife, driving west towards his home in Louisiana (instead of north, towards the Yankees' AAA Affiliate in Syracuse.) Not  a word was said between them in the first hour of the car ride, as they both knew what was happening. At that point his wife said to him, "Don't do something that you'll regret the rest of your life." 

Guidry didn't say a word when she said that to him ........ he simply got off of the highway towards Louisiana, and headed the car north towards Syracuse. 

One year later in 1977, he had a breakthrough season (16-7 with a 2.82 ERA, 9 Complete Games, and 5 Shutouts.)

The year after that (1978), he had a Koufax-like season of 25-3 with a 1.74 ERA, 248 Strikeouts, 16 Complete Games, and 9 Shutouts.

 

An interesting side-note is that the only reason why Guidry got his first start in 1977 was because Mike Torrez' plane did not arrive in time for him to pitch in the game against the Mariners on April 29th (he had just been acquired from the Athletics.) So Billy Martin had to go with a bullpen arm as an emergency starter ......... he went with Guidry, who proceeded to throw 8.33 innings of shutout ball that night, and he remained in the rotation for the rest of that season (and for many more.)

 

o

o

 

I just found this article, and it references Guidry's wife's influence on him deciding not to quit baseball when he was about to.

This is an excerpt:

 

What made Guidry's season so astonishing is that two years before, he had actually decided to quit baseball. Without the intervention of Bonnie (his wife), there is at least a reasonable chance that Guidry would have had no Big-League career at all, let alone one that lasted 14 years and accounted for 171 victories. As 1976 was starting, Guidry had spent five years in the Minors, with a record of 19-21. Despite his 96-MPH fastball, more than a few Yankee honchos (owner George Steinbrenner, chief among them) thought that he was too slight to be durable, maybe too faint-hearted to be a closer. There was talk of trading Guidry, and even flat-out releasing him. Only the late Gabe Paul was able to look beyond his size, to see the steeliness, the cables of muscles, the athleticism that enabled him to run a 9.7 100-yard dash in high school ........"Gabe used to tell George, `If you trade him, we're going to put in the papers that it was all your idea, because I want no part of it.'

 

http://www.nydailynews.com/archives/sports/lightning-struck-ron-guidry-reflects-brilliant-season-1978-article-1.803285

 

o