Grade the Gausman Deal

[wildcard]

Stupid trade.

[weams]

9 hours ago, LC_O's_87 said:

(1) Gausman's always been a second half pitcher.  He's gone on the same runs with the O's.

(2) His biggest problem has always been the lack of a 3rd pitch.  When he's pinpoint with his heater it doesn't matter, but he throws in too many clunkers b/c of the lack of a consistent 3rd pitch.

(3) Let's see how he does in the first half of 2019 before we call him an Arrieta.  and really, they aren't even comparable.  Arrieta was a flame-out here.  Gausman was a consistent 3-4 starter with #2 stuff, fringe #1 stuff.

Always a second half pitcher. Always. 

[Moose Milligan]

24 minutes ago, wildcard said:

Stupid trade.

Calm down.  We need to see how the players we got panned out.

Even so, Gausman went to a way easier division in an easier league with a better club that's got a better defense.  It's certainly not a surprise that he's doing better, though I bet the Braves probably made some changes to his mechanics.

One thing to note, K rate still isn't that high, it's actually lower than it was here.  Not like he's whiffing 8 or 9 a start. and dominating.  17k's over 4 starts isn't great.  

[wildcard]

1 minute ago, Moose Milligan said:

Calm down.  We need to see how the players we got panned out.

Even so, Gausman went to a way easier division in an easier league with a better club that's got a better defense.  It's certainly not a surprise that he's doing better, though I bet the Braves probably made some changes to his mechanics.

One thing to note, K rate still isn't that high, it's actually lower than it was here.  Not like he's whiffing 8 or 9 a start. and dominating.  17k's over 4 starts isn't great.  

I am completely calm.   Stupid trade.

[Moose Milligan]

1 minute ago, wildcard said:

I am completely calm.   Stupid trade.

Remains to be seen.

[wildcard]

1 minute ago, Moose Milligan said:

Remains to be seen.

You can wait as long as you like it will still be a........stupid trade.

[Moose Milligan]

2 minutes ago, wildcard said:

You can wait as long as you like it will still be a........stupid trade.

Really, why?  Just cause you said so?  

If we get a piece or two that's crucial to our rebuild it will not be a.......stupid trade. 

That takes into account getting international money for VVM and other prospects.  I know you discredit that for whatever reason but it's important.

[gretzkyscores]

Another dumb Orioles trade. In addition to winning his last 3 starts including 8 scoreless last night, his ERA is now under 4 which is at least 1.5 earned runs per game better than any of our starters. Way better than Bundy and others. So I concur with other post: Stupid trade

[Moose Milligan]

5 minutes ago, gretzkyscores said:

Another dumb Orioles trade. In addition to winning his last 3 starts including 8 scoreless last night, his ERA is now under 4 which is at least 1.5 earned runs per game better than any of our starters. Way better than Bundy and others. So I concur with other post: Stupid trade

After reading this, I've done a 180.  You're right, it was a terrible dumb trade.

He hasn't been gone that long but Gausman was routinely going 8 scoreless innings for the Orioles with an ERA significantly better than the rest of the starters.  I mean...wow.  How could I be so shortsighted.  I am pretty sure Gausman was *this* good while he was here and now playing for a team in a weaker division in a weaker league with a better defense behind him has precisely nothing to do with why he's great.

Thanks for clearing this up for me, I just don't know how I didn't recognize greatness when it was right here in Baltimore.  Obviously if your OH handle is a tribute to the greatest hockey player ever, you are fully aware of what a greatness means and I am just a peon.

[gretzkyscores]

Peace Moose. Each one of us has an opinion...

[wildcard]

21 minutes ago, Moose Milligan said:

Really, why?  Just cause you said so?  

If we get a piece or two that's crucial to our rebuild it will not be a.......stupid trade. 

That takes into account getting international money for VVM and other prospects.  I know you discredit that for whatever reason but it's important.

Its very simple.  Gausman was worth more than thet got for him  They didn't have to trade him at the deadline.  They didn't have to make the trade a salary dump the included O'Day.     Their payroll next  season iincluding O'Day  and with Gausman and Schoop traded over the winter would have been about 70m next year ( when deferred money is subtracted)   after the O's free agents were not re-signed. 

The O's should have gotten a top 100 prospect for Gausman and probably more.   Period.  Not wait and see if this or that.     Its  was the lack of support from the O's that made him look like a #4  pitcher.  He is probably a #2 in the AL and may be a #1 in the NL.    He had to throw too many pitches every game because the O's defense could not make the outs they should have.  The pitching behind most games because the team could not score made his stress level high and caused him to pitch differently then he would with a lead.

We are now seeing what he can do with good team support.   Atlanta stole him.     Stupid trade.

 

[ChuckS]

20 minutes ago, wildcard said:

Its very simple.  Gausman was worth more than thet got for him  They didn't have to trade him at the deadline.  They didn't have to make the trade a salary dump the included O'Day.     Their payroll next  season iincluding O'Day  and with Gausman and Schoop traded over the winter would have been about 70m next year ( when deferred money is subtracted)   after the O's free agents were not re-signed. 

The O's should have gotten a top 100 prospect for Gausman and probably more.   Period.  Not wait and see if this or that.     Its  was the lack of support from the O's that made him look like a #4  pitcher.  He is probably a #2 in the AL and may be a #1 in the NL.    He had to throw too many pitches every game because the O's defense could not make the outs they should have.  The pitching behind most games because the team could not score made his stress level high and caused him to pitch differently then he would with a lead.

We are now seeing what he can do with good team support.   Atlanta stole him.     Stupid trade.

 

The whole team support thing is a bit exaggerated.  Better defense alone doesn't make a #4 pitcher a #2 and I think others have pointed out, his FIP has been in line with his ERA.  He's out of the AL East and he's a second half pitcher.  I expected him to pitch much better in Atlanta and I expected the results to be immediate.  

It was a stupid trade though for some of the other reasons previously mentioned.  There was no gun to their head to make a deal.  If the return wasn't there we didn't need to make the trade.  

[Moose Milligan]

22 minutes ago, gretzkyscores said:

Peace Moose. Each one of us has an opinion...

Right, but your opinion doesn't take into account why he's better all of a sudden.

19 minutes ago, wildcard said:

Its very simple.  Gausman was worth more than thet got for him  They didn't have to trade him at the deadline.  They didn't have to make the trade a salary dump the included O'Day.     Their payroll next  season iincluding O'Day  and with Gausman and Schoop traded over the winter would have been about 70m next year ( when deferred money is subtracted)   after the O's free agents were not re-signed. 

The O's should have gotten a top 100 prospect for Gausman and probably more.   Period.  Not wait and see if this or that.     Its  was the lack of support from the O's that made him look like a #4  pitcher.  He is probably a #2 in the AL and may be a #1 in the NL.    He had to throw too many pitches every game because the O's defense could not make the outs they should have.  The pitching behind most games because the team could not score made his stress level high and caused him to pitch differently then he would with a lead.

We are now seeing what he can do with good team support.   Atlanta stole him.     Stupid trade.

 

Gausman pitched like a 3 or 4 for good teams while he was here.  Saying he's probably a #2 in the AL isn't based in any kind of reality.  

Again, his FIP.  I know you won't talk about it because it goes against what you'd like to believe but his FIP isn't great.  Fielding has nothing to do with it.

[bobmc]

49 minutes ago, Moose Milligan said:

Remains to be seen.

Matt Kremnitzer noticed a few things:

He's now throwing only from the stretch.  As others noted, Wallace and Chiti had him on the other side of the rubber.

[Moose Milligan]

2 minutes ago, bobmc said:

Matt Kremnitzer noticed a few things:

He's now throwing only from the stretch.  As others noted, Wallace and Chiti had him on the other side of the rubber.

Well, those things might make a difference for him.  But that fastball is still straight as an arrow.

I think the NL will catch on and Gausman will regress to his norm.