Front Page: Spin Cycle

[Enjoy Terror]

Just spin rate in general, maybe that’s my problem.

[Luke-OH]

Just now, Enjoy Terror said:

Just spin rate in general, maybe that’s my problem.

Certain types of changeups for example are better the lower the spin rate. 

I'd start with swinging strike rate for fastballs against spin rate for said fastballs. Maybe see if how the effect compares to the effect of fastball velocity. 

[Frobby]

46 minutes ago, Luke-OH said:

The 4S fastball list.

https://baseballsavant.mlb.com/statcast_search?hfPT=FF|&hfAB=&hfBBT=&hfPR=&hfZ=&stadium=&hfBBL=&hfNewZones=&hfGT=R|&hfC=&hfSea=2018|&hfSit=&player_type=pitcher&hfOuts=&opponent=&pitcher_throws=&batter_stands=&hfSA=&game_date_gt=&game_date_lt=&hfInfield=&team=BAL&position=&hfOutfield=&hfRO=&home_road=&hfFlag=&hfPull=&metric_1=&hfInn=&min_pitches=0&min_results=0&group_by=name&sort_col=spin_rate&player_event_sort=h_launch_speed&sort_order=desc&min_pas=0#results

The 2S/sinker list.

https://baseballsavant.mlb.com/statcast_search?hfPT=FT|SI|&hfAB=&hfBBT=&hfPR=&hfZ=&stadium=&hfBBL=&hfNewZones=&hfGT=R|&hfC=&hfSea=2018|&hfSit=&player_type=pitcher&hfOuts=&opponent=&pitcher_throws=&batter_stands=&hfSA=&game_date_gt=&game_date_lt=&hfInfield=&team=BAL&position=&hfOutfield=&hfRO=&home_road=&hfFlag=&hfPull=&metric_1=&hfInn=&min_pitches=0&min_results=0&group_by=name&sort_col=spin_rate&player_event_sort=h_launch_speed&sort_order=desc&min_pas=0#results

The curveball list.

https://baseballsavant.mlb.com/statcast_search?hfPT=CU|KC|&hfAB=&hfBBT=&hfPR=&hfZ=&stadium=&hfBBL=&hfNewZones=&hfGT=R|&hfC=&hfSea=2018|&hfSit=&player_type=pitcher&hfOuts=&opponent=&pitcher_throws=&batter_stands=&hfSA=&game_date_gt=&game_date_lt=&hfInfield=&team=BAL&position=&hfOutfield=&hfRO=&home_road=&hfFlag=&hfPull=&metric_1=&hfInn=&min_pitches=0&min_results=0&group_by=name&sort_col=spin_rate&player_event_sort=h_launch_speed&sort_order=desc&min_pas=0#results

The slider list.

https://baseballsavant.mlb.com/statcast_search?hfPT=SL|&hfAB=&hfBBT=&hfPR=&hfZ=&stadium=&hfBBL=&hfNewZones=&hfGT=R|&hfC=&hfSea=2018|&hfSit=&player_type=pitcher&hfOuts=&opponent=&pitcher_throws=&batter_stands=&hfSA=&game_date_gt=&game_date_lt=&hfInfield=&team=BAL&position=&hfOutfield=&hfRO=&home_road=&hfFlag=&hfPull=&metric_1=&hfInn=&min_pitches=0&min_results=0&group_by=name&sort_col=spin_rate&player_event_sort=h_launch_speed&sort_order=desc&min_pas=0#results

LOL, Danny Valencia is third on the 2S/sinker list.     

I was surprised to see that the spin on Bundy’s slider is just kind of middling. 

I’d be interested in what the high, medium and low range is for each pitch type (including changeup).

[Cumberbundy]

33 minutes ago, Frobby said:

LOL, Danny Valencia is third on the 2S/sinker list.     

I was surprised to see that the spin on Bundy’s slider is just kind of middling. 

I’d be interested in what the high, medium and low range is for each pitch type (including changeup).

Bundy’s sliders move in a variety of directions, it would be interesting to know if he throws them differently intentionally. 

[Luke-OH]

17 minutes ago, Frobby said:

LOL, Danny Valencia is third on the 2S/sinker list.     

I was surprised to see that the spin on Bundy’s slider is just kind of middling. 

I’d be interested in what the high, medium and low range is for each pitch type (including changeup).

This is from 2015,

Average 4S FB - 2,226 rpm

Average 2S FB - 2,123 rpm

Cutter - 2,185 rpm

Split - 1,524 rpm

Changeup - 1,746 rpm

Slider - 2,090 rpm (it seems like avg slider spin has increased since then)

Curveball - 2,308 rpm

From 2018, the 10th highest and 10th lowest in the MLB (for pitchers who threw the pitch 10x or more)

4S FB - 2580 rpm and 1879 rpm 

2S/sinker - 2471 rpm and 1852 rpm

Cutter - 2601 rpm and 2065 rpm

Split - 1674 rpm and 1206 rpm

Change - 2290 rpm and 1261 rpm

Slider - 2877 rpm and 1866 rpm

Curve - 3051 rpm and 1747 rpm

 

[Orioles0615]

2 hours ago, Moose Milligan said:

Launch angle is partially annoying cause it's not new.  Ted Williams talked about a slight upswing to drive the ball in the air.  And then all of a sudden it's a thing.

Spin rate, launch angle, and swing path just remind me that as an avid Golfer that I still can't hit my Driver straight. 

[Cumberbundy]

2 hours ago, Frobby said:

That and launch angle.    

I’m not saying these things aren’t very important, or that people (especially the professionals) shouldn’t be studying them and utilizing the information in the best way possible.    But there are times when you just want to eat a delicious meal without obsessing over every ingredient that is in it.

There was a time when people advised you swing down at the baseball. 

Quote

One of my favorite articles that I have ever read was from a 1986 sports illustrated conversation between Ted Williams, Wade Boggs and Don Mattingly. IF you have never read it here it is. Essentially, it is Boggs and Mattingly (both near or at the prime of their careers) talking hitting with arguably the greatest hitter ever. The conversation goes back and forth between what Boggs and Mattinlgy think they are doing with their swing and Williams continually telling them that what they think they are doing is wrong. The best example is Mattingly and Boggs talk about trying to swing down to which Williams accurately corrects them that they actually swing up. It is a great example of what I want to address today. The concept of feel vs. real.

https://www.elitediamondperformance.com/blog/

 

[LookinUp]

1 hour ago, Luke-OH said:

Certain types of changeups for example are better the lower the spin rate. 

I'd start with swinging strike rate for fastballs against spin rate for said fastballs. Maybe see if how the effect compares to the effect of fastball velocity. 

Right. Spin rate is one statistically significant (I assume) variable predicting success, but the research seeks to take that into account with everything else being equal. Think of all of the other variables that we know are significant, like location and velocity. The regression would show, for example, that assuming all other variables are constant (e.g., controlled for), the higher spin rate results in better outcomes. If you run an R2 on just spin rate, that muddies the water with all 88 MPH fastballs thrown belt high down the middle. They'll get hit more often almost no matter what the spin rate is, I'd imagine.

[scOtt]

47 minutes ago, andrewochs615 said:

Spin rate, launch angle, and swing path just remind me that as an avid Golfer that I still can't hit my Driver straight. 

When I played, and especially when I was good, swing path was a huge key for me. Whether the swing was inside to outside or out to in, and especially extension down and THROUGH the ball. Ray Floyd was a huge key for me.

Anyways, swing plane in golf is pretty related to how you throw each pitch in baseball. Arm angle, how you generate spin. In what 3D plane you generate that spin.

[scOtt]

38 minutes ago, Cy Bundy said:

There was a time when people advised you swing down at the baseball. 

https://www.elitediamondperformance.com/blog/

 

JJ Hardy almost swung down on the ball. If you watch carefully tho he still has a little bit of launch angle.

This is a HR.

 

[LookinUp]

Just about every swing path is a loop. It starts high, where the bat starts and loads. It drops to some place and then begins to loop up again. Some people, like Davis, have an extreme hand drop during/after load. Most are nowhere near as pronounced. Manny, ARod, Pujols and Manny Ramirez almost looked like they're swinging down on the ball, but all obviously have a nice plane when all is said and done. I personally like that approach because I think too much hand drop creates a longer, less consistent, swing. The one guy off the top of my head that I remember pulling that off was David Ortiz. He even did it at close to 40 years old. I wonder if he had any pharmaceutical help.* 

 

 

*No I don't. I'm convinced he definitely did.

[weams]

3 hours ago, Cy Bundy said:

Bundy’s sliders move in a variety of directions, it would be interesting to know if he throws them differently intentionally. 

Used too. 

[Luke-OH]

Regarding Bundy's slider, I read once that one way for a slider or cutter to be very effective is to mimic the spin rate of the fastball. I don't remember where I read it, so take it with a major grain of salt, but Bundy's fastball and slider spin at basically an identical rate, just with a different axis of rotation. 

[Cumberbundy]

1 hour ago, weams said:

Used too. 

[ScGO's]

20 hours ago, Luke-OH said:

The 4S fastball list.

https://baseballsavant.mlb.com/statcast_search?hfPT=FF|&hfAB=&hfBBT=&hfPR=&hfZ=&stadium=&hfBBL=&hfNewZones=&hfGT=R|&hfC=&hfSea=2018|&hfSit=&player_type=pitcher&hfOuts=&opponent=&pitcher_throws=&batter_stands=&hfSA=&game_date_gt=&game_date_lt=&hfInfield=&team=BAL&position=&hfOutfield=&hfRO=&home_road=&hfFlag=&hfPull=&metric_1=&hfInn=&min_pitches=0&min_results=0&group_by=name&sort_col=spin_rate&player_event_sort=h_launch_speed&sort_order=desc&min_pas=0#results

The 2S/sinker list.

https://baseballsavant.mlb.com/statcast_search?hfPT=FT|SI|&hfAB=&hfBBT=&hfPR=&hfZ=&stadium=&hfBBL=&hfNewZones=&hfGT=R|&hfC=&hfSea=2018|&hfSit=&player_type=pitcher&hfOuts=&opponent=&pitcher_throws=&batter_stands=&hfSA=&game_date_gt=&game_date_lt=&hfInfield=&team=BAL&position=&hfOutfield=&hfRO=&home_road=&hfFlag=&hfPull=&metric_1=&hfInn=&min_pitches=0&min_results=0&group_by=name&sort_col=spin_rate&player_event_sort=h_launch_speed&sort_order=desc&min_pas=0#results

The curveball list.

https://baseballsavant.mlb.com/statcast_search?hfPT=CU|KC|&hfAB=&hfBBT=&hfPR=&hfZ=&stadium=&hfBBL=&hfNewZones=&hfGT=R|&hfC=&hfSea=2018|&hfSit=&player_type=pitcher&hfOuts=&opponent=&pitcher_throws=&batter_stands=&hfSA=&game_date_gt=&game_date_lt=&hfInfield=&team=BAL&position=&hfOutfield=&hfRO=&home_road=&hfFlag=&hfPull=&metric_1=&hfInn=&min_pitches=0&min_results=0&group_by=name&sort_col=spin_rate&player_event_sort=h_launch_speed&sort_order=desc&min_pas=0#results

The slider list.

https://baseballsavant.mlb.com/statcast_search?hfPT=SL|&hfAB=&hfBBT=&hfPR=&hfZ=&stadium=&hfBBL=&hfNewZones=&hfGT=R|&hfC=&hfSea=2018|&hfSit=&player_type=pitcher&hfOuts=&opponent=&pitcher_throws=&batter_stands=&hfSA=&game_date_gt=&game_date_lt=&hfInfield=&team=BAL&position=&hfOutfield=&hfRO=&home_road=&hfFlag=&hfPull=&metric_1=&hfInn=&min_pitches=0&min_results=0&group_by=name&sort_col=spin_rate&player_event_sort=h_launch_speed&sort_order=desc&min_pas=0#results

Great Info, thank you.  

Ok next question.  How does faster spin rate seem to effect each pitch specifcally? For all the data above, what has the most value to an analytics dept right now?

A few things I noticed.  Miguel Castro by far has the most spin on his slider.  Is that something Elias will target?

Luis Ortiz only threw one curve and topped the list. Is that reliable data?  Do we have any links to this data for our minor leaguers?

How does Tanner Scott's FB spin rate compare to the leagues' elite?  

Also, can you teach spin rate?  Or does it depend on arm speed, arm or finger length, how well you snap your wrist, etc?