Grayson Rodriguez 2019

[MCO'sFan]

12 hours ago, Luke-OH said:

The kid is 19, I don't expect big league stamina from a 19 year old kid still growing into his body/routine. So this is a case of do you trust Law or every other publicly available analysis. What are the recommended changes anyways? I agree that the mechanics aren't ideal, but there isn't an easy fix, his arm stab is his timing mechanism. The lower half is fine for a guy his size, maybe you gradually get him a little further down the mound, but I completely disagree with Law that the lower half isn't working. Pitching isn't linear, it's rotational, linear drive towards the plate is a fairly minimal component of velocity. A big guy doesn't need it, his easy stride down the mound probably is a big part of why the command is good for his age with a sub-optimal arm action. You change that, maybe he can't throw strikes.

Without getting into an argument (maybe I don't fully understand what you are trying to convey and I am not talking specifically about Grayson) but, I disagree with this statement. Linear progression down the mound, creates energy from the back side leg. This is critical for both velocity and command. I've been fortunate enough to discuss this a pretty good length with some very high caliber folks. If you are trying to say that not everyone has the same "optimal load" on the back side, then I agree completely. Everyone is different. 

[MCO'sFan]

12 hours ago, Luke-OH said:

The kid is 19, I don't expect big league stamina from a 19 year old kid still growing into his body/routine. So this is a case of do you trust Law or every other publicly available analysis. What are the recommended changes anyways? I agree that the mechanics aren't ideal, but there isn't an easy fix, his arm stab is his timing mechanism. The lower half is fine for a guy his size, maybe you gradually get him a little further down the mound, but I completely disagree with Law that the lower half isn't working. Pitching isn't linear, it's rotational, linear drive towards the plate is a fairly minimal component of velocity. A big guy doesn't need it, his easy stride down the mound probably is a big part of why the command is good for his age with a sub-optimal arm action. You change that, maybe he can't throw strikes.

I completely agree with this point. Here's what I think is the deciding factors before you consider an intervention.

1. Pain/Health - Are they experiencing abnormal/significant pain during the game or immediately afterwards. 

2. Recovery - Are they able to recovery properly within the appropriate time frame.

3. Is their velocity/command on par with their peers.

4. Are they getting guys out.

He checks all these boxes. Leave him alone until he doesn't

[Luke-OH]

4 hours ago, MCO'sFan said:

Without getting into an argument (maybe I don't fully understand what you are trying to convey and I am not talking specifically about Grayson) but, I disagree with this statement. Linear progression down the mound, creates energy from the back side leg. This is critical for both velocity and command. I've been fortunate enough to discuss this a pretty good length with some very high caliber folks. If you are trying to say that not everyone has the same "optimal load" on the back side, then I agree completely. Everyone is different. 

No, I appreciate a back and forth. 

Yes, a point I’m trying to make is there isn’t an optimal load or amount of leg drive. 

I’m not trying to say linear acceleration towards the plate isn’t important, more that it’s much less important for big tall pitchers with long limbs, especially ones who create great upper and lower half separation (like Grayson). Guys like that can achieve velocity without much forward momentum, as you can see watching him pitch. If you don’t have the lever length or mobility to create that separation, then of course, you have to aggressively load, drive, and break (Grayson does break efficiently and rotates well into his front hip IMO).

[terphoopsfan]

Law hates the Orioles, not sure why people take his word as the gospel when it comes to our prospects.

[Can_of_corn]

Just now, terphoopsfan said:

Law hates the Orioles, not sure why people take his word as the gospel when it comes to our prospects.

You can make a case that Law had an issue with Dan and ownership after they fired his scout buddies.

Both Dan and PA are now out of the picture.  Why would he have an issue with Elias?

[makoman]

1 hour ago, Can_of_corn said:

You can make a case that Law had an issue with Dan and ownership after they fired his scout buddies.

Both Dan and PA are now out of the picture.  Why would he have an issue with Elias?

So you’re saying if you disagree with things PA did you should give the sons the benefit of the doubt. 

Frankly, if he has something against the Orioles, I can see him not caring about the regime change. But I’m not that sure he has something against the Orioles either. Usually this org has deserved most of its criticism, and what prospect was he low on that proved him wrong? Doesn’t really matter anyway, guys will either perform or they won’t.

[Can_of_corn]

3 minutes ago, makoman said:

So you’re saying if you disagree with things PA did you should give the sons the benefit of the doubt. 

Frankly, if he has something against the Orioles, I can see him not caring about the regime change. But I’m not that sure he has something against the Orioles either. Usually this org has deserved most of its criticism, and what prospect was he low on that proved him wrong? Doesn’t really matter anyway, guys will either perform or they won’t.

No, I'm saying if you had a grudge against DD and PA there is no reason to continue the grudge once he's gone.  What annoyed KLaw was when the O's fired a bunch of scouts, the people that did that are gone.

As for who he was wrong on, he took Bundy off the O's top prospect list because he could only be a reliever. That was 100 or so starts ago.  I'm guessing Bundy has been better than a few people that made his list.

[makoman]

6 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

No, I'm saying if you had a grudge against DD and PA there is no reason to continue the grudge once he's gone.  What annoyed KLaw was when the O's fired a bunch of scouts, the people that did that are gone.

As for who he was wrong on, he took Bundy off the O's top prospect list because he could only be a reliever. That was 100 or so starts ago.  I'm guessing Bundy has been better than a few people that made his list.

That was tongue in cheek but I get it a grudge is different. 

I didn’t remember that about Bundy thanks. Definitely proven wrong there, hopefully Grayson does the same. Law was always very high on Sisco if I recall. I think he’d rather be right scouting-wise than some weird sticking it to the O’s that doesn’t really do anything. 

[joelala]

18 hours ago, Luke-OH said:

No, I appreciate a back and forth. 

Yes, a point I’m trying to make is there isn’t an optimal load or amount of leg drive. 

I’m not trying to say linear acceleration towards the plate isn’t important, more that it’s much less important for big tall pitchers with long limbs, especially ones who create great upper and lower half separation (like Grayson). Guys like that can achieve velocity without much forward momentum, as you can see watching him pitch. If you don’t have the lever length or mobility to create that separation, then of course, you have to aggressively load, drive, and break (Grayson does break efficiently and rotates well into his front hip IMO).

Agree he gets a TON of separation. It’s an interesting delivery and I’d be really curious to hear what it’s like facing him live.

Does anyone remember those terrible old pitching machines at batting cages that were like catapults? You could see the ball load up super slow in the head of the catapult and then all of a sudden it would explode out? That’s kind of what his delivery reminds me of. And I always found those machines maddening to time.

And Luke, being that he’s such a big kid already, you think there’s room for added Velo without some of the aformentioned risky mechanical changes, or is a 92-94 t96 guy going forward? 

 

[MCO'sFan]

On 7/3/2019 at 4:47 PM, Luke-OH said:

No, I appreciate a back and forth. 

Yes, a point I’m trying to make is there isn’t an optimal load or amount of leg drive. 

I’m not trying to say linear acceleration towards the plate isn’t important, more that it’s much less important for big tall pitchers with long limbs, especially ones who create great upper and lower half separation (like Grayson). Guys like that can achieve velocity without much forward momentum, as you can see watching him pitch. If you don’t have the lever length or mobility to create that separation, then of course, you have to aggressively load, drive, and break (Grayson does break efficiently and rotates well into his front hip IMO).

Thanks for the clarification. That all makes sense. 

[Can_of_corn]

2 hours ago, RZNJ said:

Law said there was no chance that Sisco would stick at catcher.  

He also said Sisco had to get away from Buck.

[makoman]

51 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

He also said Sisco had to get away from Buck.

Right, my impression was he liked him in general, maybe not here. He had Sisco ranked around 50something.

 

[Can_of_corn]

1 minute ago, RZNJ said:

He said he would never stick at catcher back when he was in A ball.  

OK?

He said he had to get away from Buck in 2018.

I didn't question the veracity of your statement.

[TINSTAAPP]

On 6/28/2019 at 10:23 AM, LookinUp said:

Between Hall's BB's and Law's comments, it's a bummer reading about two of our top 3 prospects all of the sudden. I guess it's to be expected, at bit. Anyone who isn't an uber prospect will have warts, and they will get called out given all of the attention on these guys. 

If I were in charge, I'd try to tweak things over time rather than focus on a full breakdown and rebuild of a throwing motion. He has time to work on things.

Law was saying the same things about Chris Sale coming out of college.

 

If you like Chris Sale, you see a 6'6" left-hander with an arm slot close to Randy Johnson's, a plus fastball and change, and a potential front-line starter. If you're a skeptic, you see a sidearming lefthander without an average breaking ball and a long arm action that will be tough to repeat 100-plus times an outing. I'm more in the latter camp than the former, and I think Sale's pro future is reasonably likely to come in the bullpen.

He'll sit 92-93 as a starter and has touched 96 a handful of times this spring, with good sink on the pitch that comes from the low slot, helping him generate groundballs. He turns his low-80s changeup over well, surprising given his arm slot, but it's more of an action change that relies on its downward movement and big-league hitters will lay off it when it's out of the zone. He's thrown a loopy curveball and a harder slider, with a better chance to make the slider work from that low slot, but neither is an average pitch and he primarily works with the fastball and change.

His arm action is ugly, long and complex in the back with a high elbow, and he drifts forward in a crouch more commonly seen on sidearmers and submariners. If I did draft him, I'd see if I could raise his slot just enough to get him better angle on the slider and get him to take advantage of his height. His current delivery, slot, and repertoire make him look a lot like a reliever to me.

In that same analysis, Law rated Sale's slider as a '40' on his MLB Draft Grading Scale, with a projected future rating of '45'.

 

[sportsfan8703]

7 hours ago, Cy Bundy said:

1:26 the best change up ever thrown by a teenager - 80mph followed by 96 heat for back to back swing & misses after falling behind 2-0. 

 

 

Big time pressure change up on a 2-0 count right there in a big spot. That shows a lot. What was the pitch he got the out on?  Slider?  Breaking pitch?