The Davis/Elias meeting

[Greg Pappas]

4 minutes ago, wildcard said:

4)  OK, a friendly bet right now.    No money just a bet.  I say Davis will begin 2020 on the O's 25 man roster.   What say you?

Note:  My opinion is held by a majority of the Hangout.  68% say he has not played his last game with the O's.   https://forum.orioleshangout.com/forums/index.php?/topic/36366-will-this-weekend-be-the-last-time-we-see-chris-davis-in-baltimore/

I agree that he will most likely be (26-man rosters begins in 2020). That isn't what this is about.  I'm saying he shouldn't be.

[Can_of_corn]

3 minutes ago, Greg Pappas said:

To be clear, were I ever to meet Chris Davis, I'd happily shake his hand and tell him the I admire his charitable efforts.  He seems like a very good guy.  All the comments about him (I'm sure most concur) are relegated to the player, not the man.

I'd give him the I'm a guy your a guy nod and walk on.

Check out the wife if she is with him.

[wildcard]

2 minutes ago, Tony-OH said:

Yep, we cleary see this differently.

I will be extremely disappointed if Davis is even in spring training next year. It will be the first time I will have concerns over Elias having the control he should have from ownership.

I will also lose respect for the Angelos brothers that I've built up since they've taken over day to day ownership responsibilities from their father.

This Davis charade needs to end.

So you would throw the Angleos Brothers under the bus over a bench player on a losing team?

 I doubt Elias even asks the Brothers to DFA Davis.  There is no real need for him to do that for a losing team. The O's will not win in 2020 without better pitching and the Bowie guys will spend the 1st half at AAA.   Elias will save his bullets with the Brothers until it really matters is my guess.

[7Mo]

3 minutes ago, Tony-OH said:

Yep, we cleary see this differently.

I will be extremely disappointed if Davis is even in spring training next year. It will be the first time I will have concerns over Elias having the control he should have from ownership.

I will also lose respect for the Angelos brothers that I've built up since they've taken over day to day ownership responsibilities from their father.

This Davis charade needs to end.

I think he starts the season on the roster.

Clearly you have a lot more information than I do but I believe Davis is given this offseason to make swing changes and ST plus 20 or so regular season games to prove it worked.

The logical response is "he had last offseason" which is true but I've seen comments suggesting Davis didn't think he needed to change anything last offseason. Common sense would scream otherwise but it didn't happen.

The changes he needs to make cannot reasonably be done in season. He gets an offseason to show dramatic improvement. I don't happen to think he'll make any significant improvement at all but cutting him during ST seems unlikely to me.

I think he goes when Mountcastle comes up. And I have zero inside information, just my interpretation from seeing a quote here and there. 

[Can_of_corn]

6 minutes ago, wildcard said:

So you would throw the Angleos Brothers under the bus over a bench player on a losing team?

 I doubt Elias even asks the Brothers to DFA Davis.  There is no real need for him to do that for a losing team. The O's will not win in 2020 without better pitching and the Bowie guys will spend the 1st half at AAA.   Elias will save his bullets with the Brothers until it really matters is my guess.

Pretty sure it is just you on this hill.

No way a GM would want his 40 and 25 man rosters limited in such a fashion.  It is worse than when the O's had to keep Bell on the DL to get the insurance payout.

[Moose Milligan]

19 hours ago, El Gordo said:

I have a hard time believing CD will be here in 2022. He'll be gone when he blocks a player of real value.

Seeing as Davis does not have any value...in fact, seeing as he provides NEGATIVE value....he is blocking a player of real value.  

37 minutes ago, wildcard said:

1) Davis has said the O's are already mapping out a new plan for him.

2)There is no crowd.  Mancini 1B, Nunez DH, Mountcastle LF, Stewart is a back up OF.  Davis is a bench player.

3) One bench player does not prevent the O's from showing the fans the future

4) Keeping Davis saves 555k for his replacement.

Other than that we completely agree.

1) I'd be curious to see what plan they're mapping out now seeing as whatever plan they've already mapped out for him hasn't worked.  Whatever they've done for him last offseason, spring training and this entire season has not worked.  I'm not sure if they're saving their super ultra mega amazing 100% foolproof plan for last...but if they are, it seems pretty stupid that they wouldn't have used it first.  

2) There is a crowd, you just don't want to see it.  

3) Yes, it does.  It did this year.  And it reminds the fans of the biggest mistake in club history.  Bigger than the Glenn Davis trade, IMO.  And a bench player can't be a backup first baseman with no offensive value.  That would be ridiculous.  For all the time you spend analyzing rosters, I'd expect you to understand that roster flexibility matters and Davis on the roster is super prohibitive.

4) 555k is a drop in the bucket for an MLB team.  Even with a low payroll, 555k is not much of anything.  As said, Davis provides negative value, his contract is sunk cost.  Being afraid to spend 555k when you're already 161 million in the hole is just dumb.  

I get that you're not thrilled that Davis will be here in 2020, no one is.  But trying to find reasons to justify it is a bit odd.  There's not a single, solitary good reason that Davis should be here next year, other than the fact that he seems to be a hell of a nice guy and his teammates like him.  

[wildcard]

3 minutes ago, Greg Pappas said:

I agree that he will most likely be (26-man rosters begins in 2020). That isn't what this is about.  I'm saying he shouldn't be.

Now who is swimming up stream?   You know Davis will likely be back but you say my argument is losing steam.    Sounds like an emotional argument on your part rather then a factual one.      I think as fans we have get over making a big deal out of keeping a bench player on a losing team.

[Can_of_corn]

Just now, wildcard said:

Now who is swimming up stream?   You know Davis will likely be back but you say my argument is losing steam.    Sounds like an emotional argument on your part rather then a factual one.      I think as fans we have get over making a big deal out of keeping a bench player on a losing team.

Even on a losing team those roster spots are important.

[Moose Milligan]

1 minute ago, wildcard said:

Now who is swimming up stream?   You know Davis will likely be back but you say my argument is losing steam.    Sounds like an emotional argument on your part rather then a factual one.      I think as fans we have get over making a big deal out of keeping a bench player on a losing team.

Dude, I think we all know that Davis will be back next year, most of us, as you've shown by the poll you've posted, have relegated ourselves to the idea that he will be back.  

But you're the only one here making arguments as to why he should be back.  Which again, is a really weird hill to die on.  

[Greg Pappas]

2 minutes ago, wildcard said:

Now who is swimming up stream?   You know Davis will likely be back but you say my argument is losing steam.    Sounds like an emotional argument on your part rather then a factual one.      I think as fans we have get over making a big deal out of keeping a bench player on a losing team.

What?  Clearly there is a disconnect here.  I was replying to your counter points to Tony's post, where he clearly laid out his reasons that Davis should not be on the roster. So, I was agreeing with Tony that Davis should not be here... not that he won't be.

[Greg Pappas]

4 minutes ago, Moose Milligan said:

Dude, I think we all know that Davis will be back next year, most of us, as you've shown by the poll you've posted, have relegated ourselves to the idea that he will be back.  

But you're the only one here making arguments as to why he should be back.  Which again, is a really weird hill to die on.  

This. I and most others agree Davis will likely return. Yet still, like Tony and most others, I'll be very disappointed if Davis is back.

[24fps]

5 minutes ago, wildcard said:

Now who is swimming up stream?   You know Davis will likely be back but you say my argument is losing steam.    Sounds like an emotional argument on your part rather then a factual one.      I think as fans we have get over making a big deal out of keeping a bench player on a losing team.

If Chris Davis were merely a bench player, we wouldn't be having this conversation.  

[DirtyBird]

Davis will not be back. If there really was “a plan” to get him back, it would have started with adjustments in major league at bats this season. Instead, he sat on the bench for the most of September.

[mdbdotcom]

12 minutes ago, wildcard said:

Now who is swimming up stream?   You know Davis will likely be back but you say my argument is losing steam.    Sounds like an emotional argument on your part rather then a factual one.      I think as fans we have get over making a big deal out of keeping a bench player on a losing team.

That you think your own argument is based on facts is both funny and scary. 

[Moose Milligan]

6 minutes ago, 24fps said:

If Chris Davis were merely a bench player, we wouldn't be having this conversation.  

Yeah, we would.  Because having a bench player at that salary rate is stupid.

And even if Davis were somehow making the league minimum and still not producing at his rate, it'd be stupid.  You could have had Little Yaz here instead of Davis, maybe.  Or could have kept Drew Jackson AND Wilkerson.  

Even next year with 26 men you could have two super utility types that can play multiple positions that will almost certainly produce more offense than Davis. 

Davis on the bench just doesn't make sense at any rate, no matter how the roster is constructed, no matter how many open spots there are because you can give that spot to someone who's a better glove man at multiple positions AND produce more offense, even if that offense isn't that great because...well, Davis.  If the MLB roster expanded to, like, 30 players, MAYBE you could make a small argument to keep Davis.  But even then, wouldn't you rather have another backup outfielder?  Or another bullpen arm?