Richie Martin and Wandy Javier as Prospects

[NCRaven]

He was Oakland's #12 or thereabouts before we took him in the Rule 5 last year.  If he was still eligible, where would he rank now in our top 30?

Also, Wandy Javier appears to be the highest ranked prospect that is Rule 5 eligible this year.  He's only 20 years old.  Was good as an 18 and 19 year old in the Dominican and Appy Leagues.  But was pretty bad last year in his first full season A-Ball assignment in the Midwest League.  Also missed a lot of time due to injuries.  Is there any chance we could roster him for a year with the 26th man coming into play.  With his injury issues, we might even be able to "Santander" him.  Even if he did nothing this year, he'd still only be 22 the next year if/when he goes back to the minors.  Just wondering how we could add another high ceiling player to the system.   

[jamalshw]

I think something like that would be possible, but only if they dump Chris Davis. He's already essentially burning a roster spot.

[7Mo]

11 minutes ago, NCRaven said:

He was Oakland's #12 or thereabouts before we took him in the Rule 5 last year.  If he was still eligible, where would he rank now in our top 30?

Also, Wandy Javier appears to be the highest ranked prospect that is Rule 5 eligible this year.  He's only 20 years old.  Was good as an 18 and 19 year old in the Dominican and Appy Leagues.  But was pretty bad last year in his first full season A-Ball assignment in the Midwest League.  Also missed a lot of time due to injuries.  Is there any chance we could roster him for a year with the 26th man coming into play.  With his injury issues, we might even be able to "Santander" him.  Even if he did nothing this year, he'd still only be 22 the next year if/when he goes back to the minors.  Just wondering how we could add another high ceiling player to the system.   

Here's the writeup on Minnesota's #7 rated prospect, Wander Javier:

Scouting grades: Hit: 50 | Power: 50 | Run: 55 | Arm: 60 | Field: 50 | Overall: 50

There was obvious excitement when the Twins aggressively pursued Javier, one of the top prospects in the 2015-16 international class, and signed him for $4 million in July 2015. Since then, however, there have only been glimpses of what he can do. The talented infielder missed most of his first summer, in 2016, because of a hamstring injury, then re-set a high bar by being one of the best prospects in the Appalachian League in his United States debut in 2017. Momentum was halted when a torn labrum in his non-throwing shoulder kept him off the field for all of 2018.

Because the injuries have limited his time on the field, Javier is a bit of a wild card. Once he can shake the rust off, there is confidence he'll once again show his considerable offensive upside. He makes consistent hard contact with a natural feel to hit and while as a young player without that many reps, he'll need to refine his approach. He does work counts and draw walks. As he fills out, his bat speed and potential plus hitting tool could lead to at least average power. Fortunately, Javier's injury wasn't to his throwing shoulder, so his plus arm should be just fine. Whether he outgrows the position remains to be seen.

With a clean bill of health and no setbacks from his injury, Javier should be ready to show what he can do over the course of a long season. Getting at-bats and reps in the field is priority number one for now.

[sportsfan8703]

I'm going to sound like a broken record, but on a team that is expected to lose 100 games again, you really can't go wrong on taking a flier on any young player.  Especially with the 26 man roster.  

[MurphDogg]

Martin was three years older when selected than Javier will be next year and was solid in 118 games at AA.

Javier played his first season at Low A ball and did poorly and will probably repeat it next year if he isn't selected. Taking Javier would be completely burning a roster spot for the whole year, I can't see any way he would even get 50 at-bats at the Major League level, and it would be bad for Javier's development to not play for a whole year. If you are pretty sure he will be an All Star one day, then I understand it, but there are many players I would prefer.

[MurphDogg]

4 minutes ago, sportsfan8703 said:

I'm going to sound like a broken record, but on a team that is expected to lose 100 games again, you really can't go wrong on taking a flier on any young player.  Especially with the 26 man roster.  

It isn't really a 26-man roster if you have Chris Davis and a guy who OPS'd .601 in low A ball. Javier is not playable next year, even for a 100+ loss team. Stan Javier would likely provide more production at the MLB level.

[Moose Milligan]

Just now, MurphDogg said:

It isn't really a 26-man roster if you have Chris Davis and a guy who OPS'd .601 in low A ball. Javier is not playable next year.

Agreed.  

Even if the rosters expanded to 30, Davis still clogs things up.  

[Philip]

1 hour ago, 7Mo said:

Here's the writeup on Minnesota's #7 rated prospect, Wander Javier:

Scouting grades: Hit: 50 | Power: 50 | Run: 55 | Arm: 60 | Field: 50 | Overall: 50

There was obvious excitement when the Twins aggressively pursued Javier, one of the top prospects in the 2015-16 international class, and signed him for $4 million in July 2015. Since then, however, there have only been glimpses of what he can do. The talented infielder missed most of his first summer, in 2016, because of a hamstring injury, then re-set a high bar by being one of the best prospects in the Appalachian League in his United States debut in 2017. Momentum was halted when a torn labrum in his non-throwing shoulder kept him off the field for all of 2018.

Because the injuries have limited his time on the field, Javier is a bit of a wild card. Once he can shake the rust off, there is confidence he'll once again show his considerable offensive upside. He makes consistent hard contact with a natural feel to hit and while as a young player without that many reps, he'll need to refine his approach. He does work counts and draw walks. As he fills out, his bat speed and potential plus hitting tool could lead to at least average power. Fortunately, Javier's injury wasn't to his throwing shoulder, so his plus arm should be just fine. Whether he outgrows the position remains to be seen.

With a clean bill of health and no setbacks from his injury, Javier should be ready to show what he can do over the course of a long season. Getting at-bats and reps in the field is priority number one for now.

To be clear, is this guy a DFA or an h protected eligible player still in the Twins’ system?

he sure sounds like a worthwhile grab.

It infuriated me when Dan digressed so far off the beaten path to draft Jaime Garcia. I was very happy when the Os did exactly as expected and chose Richie. Javier would be a good choice, but I bet he’s heading to Detroit.

[7Mo]

3 minutes ago, Philip said:

To be clear, is this guy a DFA or an h protected eligible player still in the Twins’ system?

he sure sounds like a worthwhile grab.

It infuriated me when Dan digressed so far off the beaten path to draft Jaime Garcia. I was very happy when the Os did exactly as expected and chose Richie. Javier would be a good choice, but I bet he’s heading to Detroit.

@NCRaven made the point that this guy is the highest rated player available through Rule 5. 

I'd be concerned about what basically sitting for a year does to his development but there sure seems to be a lot of talent there. I tend to think there are better Rule 5 choices but if the idea is finding high upside, it's a name to take a look at. 

[Philip]

14 minutes ago, 7Mo said:

@NCRaven made the point that this guy is the highest rated player available through Rule 5. 

I'd be concerned about what basically sitting for a year does to his development but there sure seems to be a lot of talent there. I tend to think there are better Rule 5 choices but if the idea is finding high upside, it's a name to take a look at. 

 Right, right, I’ve read so many threads I get the subject mixed up between them, I had forgotten what this particular post was about. 

In response to your comment, it’s pretty obvious that Mike wants 1) Inexpensive warm bodies who can help us muddle through next year, and 2)  solid prospects with legitimate potential who can possibly help us in subsequent years. This guy seems like the latter.

I also wonder if the draft is once more going to be pitching heavy in 2020. If so, that makes it a little bit more likely he’ll be wanting present value in a rule five pick, but we shall have to see.

[Frobby]

If I believed the scouting grades posted above (no tool below 50, with a 55 and 60 thrown in), I’d be sorely tempted to draft this guy.   And you know what?    I wouldn’t park him exclusively on the bench, either.    I’d use him similarly to how we used Martin in the second half of the season.    
 

Now, do I believe those grades?   Don’t know, but call me skeptical.   

[MurphDogg]

5 minutes ago, Frobby said:

If I believed the scouting grades posted above (no tool below 50, with a 55 and 60 thrown in), I’d be sorely tempted to draft this guy.   And you know what?    I wouldn’t park him exclusively on the bench, either.    I’d use him similarly to how we used Martin in the second half of the season.    
 

Now, do I believe those grades?   Don’t know, but call me skeptical.   

Martin started an average of 12 games a month between July and September.

Penciling someone in to start 72 games who had a .601 OPS in low A-ball, was not even in the top 100 among hitters in the league, seems wild to me.

[Frobby]

13 minutes ago, MurphDogg said:

Martin started an average of 12 games a month between July and September.

Penciling someone in to start 72 games who had a .601 OPS in low A-ball, was not even in the top 100 among hitters in the league, seems wild to me.

Honestly, he can’t be that much worse than Martin was in the first half of last year.    If you want to quibble with 72 games, fine.   Make it 50.    My main point is I wouldn’t just have him rot on the bench the whole year, if we picked him.    And again, it depends if you believe those scouting grades on his tools.   

[jabba72]

I wouldnt be against it seeing how the team looks to be a basement dwellar once again. If Javier is the highest upside Rule 5, then you have to make that decision. Detroit picks ahead of us anyway.

[24fps]

2 hours ago, sportsfan8703 said:

I'm going to sound like a broken record, but on a team that is expected to lose 100 games again, you really can't go wrong on taking a flier on any young player.  Especially with the 26 man roster.  

Of course you can go wrong.  Any time a GM adds a player without a series of solid, well thought-out and justifiable reasons you've got a problem.  100 losses or not, throwing something against the wall to see if it sticks is not a strategy.  It's certainly not something I would hope to see from Elias and his increasingly impressive staff.