Calling Elias incompetent is unfair

[Roll Tide]

2 hours ago, Frobby said:

Just want to point out that the operating income reported by Forbes excludes any deductions for depreciation, interest payments or taxes.    

I have no idea where Forbes gets its numbers or how reliable they are.    But there’s nothing else available publicly, so it’s the best we’ve got.    
 

 

I figured so, thanks 

Im sure every last deduction was used to show that 6.5 million loss 

[atomic]

30 minutes ago, WarehouseChatter said:

I just have to sit back and laugh at some of this (not Elias and the O’s, but some of the posters on the board).  Anyone who says he’s done nothing doesn’t deserve to be a fan.  If you can’t see and feel the organization changes, you’re nuts.  This club was years (if not a decade) behind others and “fans” are ready to jump ship after 1 move?  In my opinion, go for it.  Jump ship.  I’ll still be here when we compete again.

ROFL.  Don’t deserve to be a fan?  I can’t stop laughing over this. The Orioles are losing most of their fans and the few that are left you say don’t pas the qualification to be a customer.  And it’s hardly one move.  

[Ripken]

I hate the Villar move... though I'll wait.  Otherwise I love Elias.  Trust him completely.  

[weams]

1 hour ago, tntoriole said:

I still think ME could have kept Villar and spun the wheel on something trade wise developing between now and the 2020 deadline.  But...it is what it is.  Sometimes rebuilders want to clear out everything...ok.    Either way, it is a miniscule deal in the overall process.  

I tear down an old fixer upper. I think the wiring in an addition is satisfactory. But I'm taking it sown to the studs and rewiring all the rest of the house. I'll do the addition too. 

[7Mo]

1 hour ago, tntoriole said:

I still think ME could have kept Villar and spun the wheel on something trade wise developing between now and the 2020 deadline.  But...it is what it is.  Sometimes rebuilders want to clear out everything...ok.    Either way, it is a miniscule deal in the overall process.  

Let me just twist your idea a bit.

I'd love to keep Villar but not at $10.4M. I think the market has spoken about that. If he couldn't be traded last July, and can't now.....so far...I don't think it's a good gamble to believe he could be next July at $10.4M.

He's not a long term asset, and at $10.4, he doesn't have trade value. 

[drjohnnyfeva]

Villar had a career year and, also, it's the first year where he received full playing time instead of some kind of time share.  We might have been a team to pay a premium for those two pieces of data, but other teams could look at those two facts as a case of buyer beware or caution.  I read someplace that he might get 10 Million in arbitration.  That's a little steep for me for a player such as that. 

I mean who knows, it could be that his trajectory is up, but it could also mean nothing more than he had a good year and now he comes back to earth and is nothing more than a rotational utility guy.

Can't blame other teams for not biting.  The fact that Elias was trying to offload some payroll means little to me.  What matters is he was trying to get something, anything, for a marginal player.   Unless, Villar is willing to take a pay cut to play full time, he likely won't be playing here.  The money can be better allocated than driving it into a player who has not taken command of chances he's been given in the past (until this year, one might argue) or on a team that is not going to compete again this year anyway.

 

Elias is certainly NOT incompetent.  For goodness sake...

[Roll Tide]

2 hours ago, Tx Oriole said:

I dont think it’s all on Elias. I think it’s ownership that’s the main problem. If the sons are like Peter then this organization for loads of trouble. IMO 

According to the initial interview from John Angelos, Elias is in charge. I'm certain he has a budget and I'd be very surprised if it was so slow as it required DFA'ing Villar. But who can say for sure

[Can_of_corn]

4 minutes ago, drjohnnyfeva said:

Villar had a career year and, also, it's the first year where he received full playing time instead of some kind of time share.  We might have been a team to pay a premium for those two pieces of data, but other teams could look at those two facts as a case of buyer beware or caution.  I read someplace that he might get 10 Million in arbitration.  That's a little steep for me for a player such as that. 

I mean who knows, it could be that his trajectory is up, but it could also mean nothing more than he had a good year and now he comes back to earth and is nothing more than a rotational utility guy.

Can't blame other teams for not biting.  The fact that Elias was trying to offload some payroll means little to me.  What matters is he was trying to get something, anything, for a marginal player.   Unless, Villar is willing to take a pay cut to play full time, he likely won't be playing here.  The money can be better allocated than driving it into a player who has not taken command of chances he's been given in the past (until this year, one might argue) or on a team that is not going to compete again this year anyway.

 

Elias is certainly NOT incompetent.  For goodness sake...

He played in156 games in 2016.

[Can_of_corn]

Just now, Roll Tide said:

According to the initial interview from John Angelos, Elias is in charge. I'm certain he has a budget and I'd be very surprised if it was so slow as it required DFA'ing Villar. But who can say for sure

Elias, the Brothers Angelos.  Sig probably knows.

[7Mo]

1 minute ago, Can_of_corn said:

Elias, the Brothers Angelos.  Sig probably knows.

Chris Davis probably knows.

[Roll Tide]

1 hour ago, WarehouseChatter said:

I just have to sit back and laugh at some of this (not Elias and the O’s, but some of the posters on the board).  Anyone who says he’s done nothing doesn’t deserve to be a fan.  If you can’t see and feel the organization changes, you’re nuts.  This club was years (if not a decade) behind others and “fans” are ready to jump ship after 1 move?  In my opinion, go for it.  Jump ship.  I’ll still be here when we compete again.

Strong opinions from a guy that has 111 posts in 8 years that is here using his handle to advertise his Facebook Blog site.

You obviously have the right to your opinion and personally I don't care what it is. I hate the move and have explained why. Can you really see the "changes" at this point?

He's hired a bunch of his buddies and fired other that had varying levels of value. He hasn't added an international player that was rated. He hasn't made a worth while trade yet. He just DFA'd our best player for no return.

Perhaps my opinion will change but so far he hasn't showed me anything. And yes ...Talk is cheap!

 

 

[Roll Tide]

28 minutes ago, weams said:

I tear down an old fixer upper. I think the wiring in an addition is satisfactory. But I'm taking it sown to the studs and rewiring all the rest of the house. I'll do the addition too. 

Weams .... I respect your opinion. But with this logic shouldn't they just DFA Bundy also? And why on earth is Davis still here? He takes up a roster spot, is sunk money, and has no trade value nor any chance at building any.

[tntoriole]

29 minutes ago, 7Mo said:

Let me just twist your idea a bit.

I'd love to keep Villar but not at $10.4M. I think the market has spoken about that. If he couldn't be traded last July, and can't now.....so far...I don't think it's a good gamble to believe he could be next July at $10.4M.

He's not a long term asset, and at $10.4, he doesn't have trade value. 

10.4 cited in a publication does NOT mean that is what is going to happen and so Villar is ONLY getting 10.4 as the only possible outcome of an arb process.  If the Orioles tendered him an offer  at 7.5 -8 million, I would say that he  could sign that tender. 

And if you then are able to deal him by the trade deadline, teams are well past half into the season, so , he costs the trade team less than 4 million, not 10.   

So really the question is whether 4 million from us for half a season and extending the possibility that  Villar tears up the league in the first half, AND a contender say loses a second baseman and then he nets us a prospect AND he fills a spot until then on a 1 year deal when we have nobody being blocked  is my calculation. 

But we are going to have to have somebody play second base, so this saves us less than 10 EVEN if the inflated number turns out to be correct and if it turns out that his replacement is a minimum guy (which we don’t have one to stick at 2b currently). 

 

But...it ain’t happening, so I am moving along. Good luck, Jonathan.   Next? 

[Can_of_corn]

1 minute ago, Roll Tide said:

Weams .... I respect your opinion. But with this logic shouldn't they just DFA Bundy also? And why on earth is Davis still here? He takes up a roster spot, is sunk money, and has no trade value nor any chance at building any.

Word is they have trade partners for Bundy.

I firmly believe that at the last two deadlines and this offseason teams have tried to trade Villar and have seen very little interest.  I wouldn't be shocked to find out he was quietly shopped last offseason.

[7Mo]

14 minutes ago, tntoriole said:

10.4 cited in a publication does NOT mean that is what is going to happen and so Villar is ONLY getting 10.4 as the only possible outcome of an arb process.  If the Orioles tendered him an offer  at 7.5 -8 million, I would say that he  could sign that tender. 

 

Good post......but....don't you think they've talked to Villar's agent often to see what he'd agree to?

I'd bet Elias is operating with a LOT more information than we are.