Villar Traded to Marlins for LHS Easton Lucas

[atomic]

1 hour ago, Moose Milligan said:

Yeah, I really don't care.  Long ago, I stopped looking at athletes as role models and examples of how to behave.  We were fortunate and blessed to have a guy like Cal Ripken...and for the older folks around here, Brooks Robinson.  Unfortunately they can't all be that way, though.

We don’t know what people have done in their private lives.  Everyone thought Bill Cosby was a great guy.  

[Luke-OH]

1 minute ago, atomic said:

I don’t know why we would sign him.  We aren’t trying to win.  I don’t see the need to bring embarrassment on to the franchise for no reason.  Let him sign with another team.

I agree completely with that and will reiterate that I definitely don’t want him on the team. 

I was just trying to make the point that even if you aren’t concerned with his past issues, if you are trying to make a cold, calculating value play, the PR ramifications need to be considered as part of that calculation.

[atomic]

23 minutes ago, Three Run Homer said:

Everyone on this site who thinks that this trade was some brilliant subtle masterstroke and pats themselves on the back for being "thinking man's baseball fans" should ask themselves why every national sportswriter who has commented on this trade, even at the "smart" websites like fangraphs, thinks that it's a disgrace from the Orioles' point of view.  

They don’t like to admit they were wrong about ownership and Elias.  

[Three Run Homer]

6 minutes ago, Luke-OH said:

Is anyone doing that? Praising it as a masterstroke that is.

Well, plenty of people are defending the trade, and calling the critics "pearl clutchers" or casual fans who don't understand what the rebuilding process requires.

[Luke-OH]

Just now, Three Run Homer said:

Well, plenty of people are defending the trade, and calling the critics "pearl clutchers" or casual fans who don't understand what the rebuilding process requires.

Defending it and calling it a masterstroke are completely different things. I understand both sides of it. I am a little surprised at how shocked people are by the move, it was spelled out on day 1 pretty much. The only surprise is that the league didn’t value him as highly as even I thought (and I thought he was due for significant regression).

I completely support people’s right to be mad about it, it’s not a fun thing.

[Three Run Homer]

2 minutes ago, atomic said:

They don’t like to admit they were wrong about ownership and Elias.  

I don't blame Elias for this travesty one bit.  This trade was a cost cutting move dictated by ownership.

And perhaps some of the $10M will be reinvested in something worthwhile, like improving our advance scouting or Latin American scouting, or signing more international players.  But that money should have been invested anyway.  There should not be a tradeoff between spending on having an adequate organizational structure to compete in the long haul, and spending a reasonable amount of money to keep your team's best player around for one more season, instead of letting him go for nothing.  

[Beef Supreme]

28 minutes ago, Three Run Homer said:

Everyone on this site who thinks that this trade was some brilliant subtle masterstroke and pats themselves on the back for being "thinking man's baseball fans" should ask themselves why every national sportswriter who has commented on this trade, even at the "smart" websites like fangraphs, thinks that it's a disgrace from the Orioles' point of view.  

This is objectively false. Most national sportswriters try to appear objective. Sounds like you have been reading FanSided and getting amateurs confused with professional writers.

[Roll Tide]

3 minutes ago, atomic said:

They don’t like to admit they were wrong about ownership and Elias.  

I think you know where I stand.

According to John Angelos Elias has full autonomy 

I will take him at his word as I have seen nothing that contradicts it so far.

I think Elias wants to strip the team down, lose as much as possible, and as a result pick as high as possible. No sense to move Davis as he helps the team lose.

Removing guys on the positive side of the ledger is a goal especially ones that represent salary increases. I think that's why Villar is gone and guys like Bundy and Mancini could be on deck.

The problem is that he didn't play a poker hand with the other GMs. He laid his cards on the table about his intentions to nontender him. I think the smart savvy GMs used that against him. That's why we were only able to get a middling prospect. I have no proof but I'm confident he could gotten a better package at the deadline.

 

Thr guys holding to the trust Elias, Villar isn't good, no one will pay him the arb number, etc.....Haven't come off of their position even as news comes out to contradict their position.

Elias said in an interview that this trade was better than going through the Arbitration process with Villar.

Melewski followed up today on the MASN site dismissing rumors that he was placed on waivers. 

I think it was a horrible trade .... Almost as bad as nontendering him and getting nothing.

What I really hope moving forward is that he learns from this situation.

 

 

[Roll Tide]

10 minutes ago, Luke-OH said:

Defending it and calling it a masterstroke are completely different things. I understand both sides of it. I am a little surprised at how shocked people are by the move, it was spelled out on day 1 pretty much. The only surprise is that the league didn’t value him as highly as even I thought (and I thought he was due for significant regression).

I completely support people’s right to be mad about it, it’s not a fun thing.

I am pretty surprised....but I stand by my remarks that the few teams that were interested weren't offering much since they were expecting Elias to no tender him.

[Can_of_corn]

16 minutes ago, Luke-OH said:

Defending it and calling it a masterstroke are completely different things. I understand both sides of it. I am a little surprised at how shocked people are by the move, it was spelled out on day 1 pretty much. The only surprise is that the league didn’t value him as highly as even I thought (and I thought he was due for significant regression).

I completely support people’s right to be mad about it, it’s not a fun thing.

 

4 minutes ago, Roll Tide said:

I am pretty surprised....but I stand by my remarks that the few teams that were interested weren't offering much since they were expecting Elias to no tender him.

Not surprised at all.  Been saying it since the trade deadline.  For whatever reason teams don't seem to value him.

[Roll Tide]

1 minute ago, Can_of_corn said:

 

Not surprised at all.  Been saying it since the trade deadline.  For whatever reason teams don't seem to value him.

The reason that the teams that had an interest offfered little is, why do so when you can get him for free. 

According ti the Sun interview Elias was going to nontender him.

 

As a side note ...... Mike Moustakis to the Reds for 4/64 is just shocking. Villar was a better player last season and over the last 4. I think the Reds will regret the decision.

[Luke-OH]

8 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

 

Not surprised at all.  Been saying it since the trade deadline.  For whatever reason teams don't seem to value him.

If I had to guess, it’s that teams have defensive metrics that better account for shifts and he is really bad by those metrics. That and standard regression.

[Can_of_corn]

14 minutes ago, Roll Tide said:

The reason that the teams that had an interest offfered little is, why do so when you can get him for free. 

According ti the Sun interview Elias was going to nontender him.

 

As a side note ...... Mike Moustakis to the Reds for 4/64 is just shocking. Villar was a better player last season and over the last 4. I think the Reds will regret the decision.

And the interest at the deadline was tepid at best for what reason?  And the 2018 deadline?  Pretty sure Elias would have listened to offer after the 2018 season.

I'll agree in not liking the Reds' move.

[HowAboutThat]

1 hour ago, Three Run Homer said:

You seem to have me mistaken for a stupid casual fan who doesn't understand why the O's can't sign Gerrit Cole and Anthony Rendon and go to the World Series next year.  I agreed with letting Adam Jones leave.  I agree with the overall direction that the Orioles franchise has taken in the last two seasons.  I'm all in favor of rebuilding, when it means trading current assets for legitimate future assets.  

But damn it, I am not in favor of giving away a player and getting a token prospect in return, just in order to dump a salary.  That is not rebuilding.  That's just sucking and being cheap for it's own sake.  There is no upside to this trade, no pot of gold at the end of the rainbow if we are just patient enough.  We gave up a good player and got nothing back to show for it that will help us win later.  This is not a matter of discerning fans versus dumb fans.  This is rebuilding with honor versus fan abuse.  

I understand your comment but you’re forgetting two things:

1) the market is set by what people are willing to pay. They weren’t willing to give up anything for Villar for whatever reason.

2) The Orioles have to make decisions about whether overpaying for Villar, who has already shown that even a career year doesn’t give him any trade value, or let him go.

they chose to let him go because keeping him would be foolish money.

I agree that the difference between what he’s worth and what he would earn in arbitration is minimal,  and the whole situation is a bit annoying, but I understand the logic, and I can’t say I disagree because even after a career year Villar had zero trade value.

And the Marlins are stupid. Oh so stupid.

[HowAboutThat]

1 hour ago, Three Run Homer said:

Everyone on this site who thinks that this trade was some brilliant subtle masterstroke and pats themselves on the back for being "thinking man's baseball fans" should ask themselves why every national sportswriter who has commented on this trade, even at the "smart" websites like fangraphs, thinks that it's a disgrace from the Orioles' point of view.  

Because they don’t care, they see only the surface, and every writer loves to have a good team to love, an evil team to hate, and a stupid team to laugh at. It SHOULD be the Marlins, but everyone is so in love with Jeter they give him a pass.