Bundy traded to Angels for Isaac Mattson, Kyle Bradish, Zach Peek, and Kyle Brnovich

[interloper]

2 minutes ago, NCRaven said:

Not at all.  He's identified salary as an issue and is moving quickly to address that issue.  He's doing it by dumping higher salaried players.  None of the prospects that we've received for Villar or Bundy will be nearly as good as either of those player, in my opinion.  Hope I'm wrong.  The player, if any, that we get back for Givens may actually approach his value since I don't think he has much.  I don't think Givens is worth $3.2 and I'd be surprised if Elias does either.  So, I think Elias, based on recent actions, is likely to dump Givens salary and really doesn't care if he gets much back in return.  Not an insult.  An observation.

Yes, salary is a factor for sure, I agree there. I do not agree that he doesn't care about a return. That's ridiculous. Of course he does. If it was all salary, he would just non-tender Givens. They're clearly fine to roll into the season with him since they've tendered him a contract. 

[Frobby]

11 minutes ago, RZNJ said:

First off, you are valuing him off his best season. He wasn't close to those numbers his first two years.  If that's his new norm there is value there.  No one is going to bet top prospects that that is his new norm. Also, offensive numbers across baseball were inflated last year so you have to take those numbers with a few grains of salt.  His best position is 1B and he's probably average at best there. If the Orioles are able to trade him and take back one prospect it's possible they might get one guy around a top 100 prospect.

These are fair points.   Your post wasn’t addressed to me but we had a similar exchange yesterday and I didn’t get a chance to answer your questions about my expectations for Mancini.    Right now he’s a career 119 OPS+ guy, with three seasons of 120, 95 and 135. I don’t necessarily think he’ll put up 135 every year, but I do think 95 will prove to the the outlier and his average season over the next three will be in the 120-135 range.   I’m putting this in OPS+ terms to address the issue of last year’s offensive environment.     

[atomic]

35 minutes ago, interloper said:

For Mancini I'd want 2 top 15's and an upsidey low minors guy. 

Unrealistic?

That is the equivilant of Ryan Mckenna, Kyle Stowers and Encarncion.  So I would not trade Mancini for that if I were the GM.

 

[interloper]

All you have to do is look at Elias' in-depth notes on the players he just acquired for Bundy. The guy knows the players who he is acquiring, ergo, he cares. To suggest otherwise is a complete leap. The guy who says he wants to have an elite pipeline of talent doesn't care who he acquires for his farm system? Ok... 

Again, in a rebuild you trade your players who are approaching free agency. That coincides with them making more money. Money is definitely a factor in these trades, obviously. But these aren't just salary dumps. Elias has scouted a lot of these guys himself. They were on his  draft board. To suggest that he'll take whatever schlub player in return is rubbish. What you're really saying is you're mad that our players aren't worth more, or you're mad because you want to see these players next year. 

[interloper]

1 minute ago, atomic said:

That is the equivilant of Ryan Mckenna, Kyle Stowers and Encarncion.  So I would not trade Mancini for that if I were the GM.

 

But would you for Baumann, Hall, and Ortiz (the good one)? Same scenario. 

[DrungoHazewood]

2 hours ago, interloper said:

Again, I love Elias' level of communication and detail. I also like that he really gives Bundy some love elsewhere in this article. I don't buy (yet) that the guy is some cold, calculating robot. He was a scout and former player, I think that alone should tell us that he has some empathy for guys. Furthermore, he doesn't BS the fans. He's just like, here's the deal, here's my plan, I was hired to do this, it's gonna suck for awhile but we're laser focused.

I appreciate all that stuff. It's refreshing and it gives me confidence. Will it work out? Who knows! But the guy has a plan and he's followed it from day one. What else can we ask for? 

Wouldn't it be a lot more concerning if he continued tearing it down to the studs and aggressively rebuilding... except for the times where he kept Jonathan Villar and Dylan Bundy and paid them $15M total that could have gone to the future, just because 63 wins is better than 57?

[interloper]

Just now, RZNJ said:

Okay. It's semantics. Elias is willing to take back a fringe prospect as opposed to he doesn't care if that's all he gets.  Same thing to me.  The main impetus is moving the money.

For a guy like Villar, we might agree that it's semantics. Even so, Elias managed to acquire a fringey guy that he scouted. 

For a guy like Givens, who they tendered a contract to and will therefore HAVE to pay him unless he's traded, that says to me they want an actual return. Villar there was no way they were paying that arbitration cost, evidently, but that's not the case with Givens or Mancini. 

[Just Regular]

The Castellanos/Ozuna rumors seem to be CWS/TEX in the AL, and MIA/CHC/ARZ/SF in the NL - obviously DH a factor for using guys like this.

CWS have so much $$$ after Machado/Wheeler spurns, unless they can dump it all on Cole/Strasburg they'll probably just buy a guy.

TEX is trying to get more right-handed.  Up-and-comer Ronald Guzman mostly stunk and lost 1B job to Danny Santana.  Guzman 2.5 years younger and 2 more years of control, but can he hit?

MIA - I can't fathom why, but would be happy to trade more with them.

CHC - Theo's reckoning backed by reports Cubs are obviously trying to make trades.  Would Ian Happ be too good to be true?  I'd certainly be interested in experimenting with him back at 2B.

ARZ - had success with ex-Oriole Christian Walker at 1B, but Seth Beer coming.  RF also possible - they are a deep farm.

SF - likewise can't fathom why - Yaz is who Roster Resource sees as their RF today.

[DrungoHazewood]

44 minutes ago, Roll Tide said:

To go on he’s under control for 3 more seasons. And is still just 27 years old so statistically stil should be trending up.

A typical major league player peaks at 27.  The curve is pretty flat from 26 to 29 or 30.  But you can't expect a guy who turns 28 before next season starts to continue on a upward trajectory for a number of years.  All players are different, but he's probably as good as he'll ever be.

[interloper]

3 minutes ago, RZNJ said:

In a heartbeat. No one would come close to that.  The Encarnacion, McKenna, Stowers was a good one.  That made me think.  I think Elias would certainly do that one.

I don't know if I would, mostly because I don't think McKenna belongs in the top 15. And I was thinking deeper/younger than Encarnacion, who is listed as #30 on MLB. 

Also none of those players are pitchers and I would want at least one top 15 pitcher.

[weams]

2 hours ago, Moose Milligan said:

As much as I didn't like him, I'd be down for a Gausman return, especially if looked at for a bullpen role.  No denying the talent, I just thought he never really could harness it.  But there are some things to like there, for sure.

 

 

I will always be grateful for his saving the Wei Chen mess in the ALDS. He made the double possible. 

[NCRaven]

12 minutes ago, DrungoHazewood said:

Wouldn't it be a lot more concerning if he continued tearing it down to the studs and aggressively rebuilding... except for the times where he kept Jonathan Villar and Dylan Bundy and paid them $15M total that could have gone to the future, just because 63 wins is better than 57?

Don't really disagree.  After giving it a lot of thought, I think the process with Villar bothered me more than that he was traded.  Although, I'm still underwhelmed by the return.  Bundy's was a decent return - although I would rather have fewer, but higher level prospects, and Eppler made it clear that was a possibility.  I'm resigned to losing Mancini by this time next week and don't really care about Givens - even though I expect him to rebound some.

[weams]

11 minutes ago, OrioleDog said:

The Castellanos/Ozuna rumors seem to be CWS/TEX in the AL, and MIA/CHC/ARZ/SF in the NL - obviously DH a factor for using guys like this.

CWS have so much $$$ after Machado/Wheeler spurns, unless they can dump it all on Cole/Strasburg they'll probably just buy a guy.

TEX is trying to get more right-handed.  Up-and-comer Ronald Guzman mostly stunk and lost 1B job to Danny Santana.  Guzman 2.5 years younger and 2 more years of control, but can he hit?

MIA - I can't fathom why, but would be happy to trade more with them.

CHC - Theo's reckoning backed by reports Cubs are obviously trying to make trades.  Would Ian Happ be too good to be true?  I'd certainly be interested in experimenting with him back at 2B.

ARZ - had success with ex-Oriole Christian Walker at 1B, but Seth Beer coming.  RF also possible - they are a deep farm.

SF - likewise can't fathom why - Yaz is who Roster Resource sees as their RF today.

I read somewhere that Yastrzemski was slated to be the starting CF after the Pillar Non-tender. 

[interloper]

1 minute ago, NCRaven said:

Don't really disagree.  After giving it a lot of thought, I think the process with Villar bothered me more than that he was traded.  Although, I'm still underwhelmed by the return.  Bundy's was a decent return - although I would rather have fewer, but higher level prospects, and Eppler made it clear that was a possibility.  I'm resigned to losing Mancini by this time next week and don't really care about Givens - even though I expect him to rebound some.

That's what's interesting though. Elias chose these guys. Eppler said "these were the guys they identified". To me, that says Elias cares and it gives me confidence because they hand-picked these players.

[interloper]

2 minutes ago, weams said:

I read somewhere that Yastrzemski was slated to be the starting CF after the Pillar Non-tender. 

I will be fascinated to see what Yaz does in 2020.