Fangraphs: Do you really want to Hurt Me?

[Frobby]

Just now, Can_of_corn said:

Possibly.

I'm not sure it was misguided as much as prejudiced.

Can’t say.    

[Can_of_corn]

1 minute ago, Frobby said:

Can’t say.    

Same, just throwing it out there.

I would think someone simply misguided could be swayed by facts, of which many supporting an opposing view to him existed.

[Frobby]

3 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

Same, just throwing it out there.

I would think someone simply misguided could be swayed by facts, of which many supporting an opposing view to him existed.

Well, so far as international spending goes, you’ll recall the study the team commissioned during the MacPhail/Klentak era that said international spending was inefficient.     So perhaps Angelos thought the facts were on his side.    But the logic of any such study, to the extent it ever had any validity at all, certainly flew out the window when MLB capped international spending.    

[Roll Tide]

8 hours ago, weams said:

The Orioles were always cheap until Angelos decided to go after Albert Belle. 

Really ? In the mid 90s the Orioles signed Palmeiro, Alomar , Surhoff etc ....The Belle signing was around 99. I dont think anyone would look at the 1994-1997 teams and call the Os cheap.

[OsFanSinceThe80s]

12 minutes ago, Roll Tide said:

Really ? In the mid 90s the Orioles signed Palmeiro, Alomar , Surhoff etc ....The Belle signing was around 99. I dont think anyone would look at the 1994-1997 teams and call the Os cheap.

Orioles had the second highest payroll in 1996 & 1997 and number one in 1998 in all of MLB.

https://www.usatoday.com/sports/mlb/salaries/1998/team/all/

 

[Just Regular]

Now here is an offseason.

https://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/BAL/1996-transactions.shtml

From December 14-26, we signed Randy Myers, Roger McDowell, BJ Surhoff and Roberto Alomar (and traded for Kent Mercker and David Wells).  Mercker became Eddie Murray that July.

[HowAboutThat]

Koji cried when the Os traded him. I’m glad he got a ring, even if it was with the Bostons

[OsFanSinceThe80s]

16 minutes ago, OrioleDog said:

Now here is an offseason.

https://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/BAL/1996-transactions.shtml

From December 14-26, we signed Randy Myers, Roger McDowell, BJ Surhoff and Roberto Alomar (and traded for Kent Mercker and David Wells).  Mercker became Eddie Murray that July.

[hoosiers]

10 hours ago, Frobby said:

Well, so far as international spending goes, you’ll recall the study the team commissioned during the MacPhail/Klentak era that said international spending was inefficient.     So perhaps Angelos thought the facts were on his side.    But the logic of any such study, to the extent it ever had any validity at all, certainly flew out the window when MLB capped international spending.    

Not sure if I recall this study, but I doubt the conclusion was that international spending was inefficient overall.  Especially given how AM attempted to expand our international scouting and spend.  I do remember that AM set in motion a policy that US scouts  check out the international prospects at some point.  Most likely,  the study concluded that spending at the top of the international market was inefficient.

[sportsfan8703]

14 hours ago, weams said:

The Orioles were always cheap until Angelos decided to go after Albert Belle. 

What would be the equivalent of signing Albert Belle in today’s game. Doesn’t have to be a FA from this offseason. Giancarlo Stanton?  

Just to put into perspective how much of a beast Belle was. Everyone just got unlucky. 

[Mr. Chewbacca Jr.]

6 hours ago, hoosiers said:

Not sure if I recall this study, but I doubt the conclusion was that international spending was inefficient overall.  Especially given how AM attempted to expand our international scouting and spend.  I do remember that AM set in motion a policy that US scouts  check out the international prospects at some point.  Most likely,  the study concluded that spending at the top of the international market was inefficient.

Before the spending limits, I guess it could be argued it could be inefficient. A lot of big contract stinkers, just off the top of my head: Rusney Castillo (7/$72.5), Yasmany Tomas (6/$68.5), Kei Igawa (5/$20, $26M Posting Fee).

[OsFanSinceThe80s]

5 hours ago, sportsfan8703 said:

What would be the equivalent of signing Albert Belle in today’s game. Doesn’t have to be a FA from this offseason. Giancarlo Stanton?  

Just to put into perspective how much of a beast Belle was. Everyone just got unlucky. 

That’s a pretty good comp, but Stanton has had injury problems before 2019. So him being hurt wasn’t totally unexpected, but much like Belle I would not be surprised if his career is cut short by injury. 

[Frobby]

7 hours ago, hoosiers said:

Not sure if I recall this study, but I doubt the conclusion was that international spending was inefficient overall.  Especially given how AM attempted to expand our international scouting and spend.  I do remember that AM set in motion a policy that US scouts  check out the international prospects at some point.  Most likely,  the study concluded that spending at the top of the international market was inefficient.

From May 2011:

Klentak also spoke about international scouting and specifically the Orioles' decision to not be one of the major players internationally. Klentak echoed the sentiments previously voiced by President of Baseball Operations Andy MacPhail when he said that historically speaking, investments in the international market aren't as sound as domestic investments, and while the team has increased its resources for the international market the past couple years, they are not and probably will not be one of the biggest spenders internationally.

Klentak then went a step further, telling us that last year the Orioles brought someone in for the specific task of analyzing the return on investment for international signings and based on the results, it was determined that it wasn't high enough to to warrant a bigger investment than they are giving it (he understandably declined to give details on the study). The Orioles have to be mindful of their resource allocation and while the domestic front is also risky, it's easier to know their true talent level. Players in international markets have agents that protect them so fiercely that it can be difficult to see them play in enough game situations to accurately assess their talent.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.camdenchat.com/platform/amp/2011/5/11/2165462/q-a-with-matt-klentak-orioles-director-baseball-operations
 

[Oriole1940]

What is being described is LIFE, and a part of most peoples life where they are not in nearly as good a shape in many ways, to deal with it.  These people have lived the Super Good life, many for years, and when they are required to live a Good life compared  to almost all of humanity, they should be grown up enough to cope.  Some unhappiness at their turn of events, sure, but for goodness sake, they get no tears from me. 

f

[Aristotelian]

If anything, Angelos has spent to a fault. Davis being the most egregious example. Most of the time it has been on ill fated players that were not enough to put us over the top. Angelos is more stupid than cheap. I would be OK with cheap if it meant going full Tampa Bay mode.